Rafi-why don't you start by asking YOUR Rav?

he answered that already. But I am talking about at the national level. All week long we have heard quotes about how its just a small group, and hardly anyone uses mehadrin buses and nobody cares about this, and only they behave like this, etc. There was a fight between askanim about whether or not Rav Elyashiv supports mehadrin bus lines or not.

They, the politicians especially, but also the gedolim, the leaders of the haredi community not shul rabbis that nobody outside their own shul listen to, need to work to toss this bunch out of the haredi community. When people think of haredim they should not equate these thugs with the regular haredi community.

But if the local shul Rabbis, including the moderate-charedi ones, say "I will not address anything about that group because they have nothing to do with real charedim" then the message never gets to the top that there's a problem. And that message would have to come from the inside - not the blogs, not the news media, not the politicians who visit with askanim in triplicate, not the tourists coming for autographs I mean brochos....

Rafi, I hate to say it because in a lot of ways I respect your Rav, but I think the reasons he gave are the same sorts of reasons that are given on a national level. If someone like him, who has guts, makes excuses for not condemning this sort of thing, then what do you expect from the national figures who have less guts?

I dont expect anything. they havent done anything until now and i dont expect that to change. I am saying that this is something they need to do. not something they will do.
and I agree the original petition should have been signed back then.

Rafi:

I recall reading on your bloag a few months ago that Rav Kupshitz attended a rally supporting the thugs. Rav Malinowitz tried to re-interpret that stance, but I'm not quite sure that Rav Malinowitz's position is the one understood in the Charedi world.

Is my memory correct or an I suffering from early onset Alzheimer's?

yes, it was something like that. I am not talking about rabbis like Rav Kupshitz. He is one of the leaders of the kannoim. Even if he doesnt agree with everything they say or do, he isnt going to denounce them, as he is one of them.
we need people like Moshe Gafni and Litzman denouncing them, not fighting on their behalf in government, etc., Maybe they need to join the fight against mehadrin buses and other issues dear to these kannoim.
they should get the gedolim they are close to and consult with on every issue to speak out against them.
The regular haredi leadership needs to act as if these people are not part of the group/

Rafi:

As long as the crazies have some sort of Rabbinic backing, the Haredi knesset members will not do anything serious against them.

Even Rabbi Malinowitz won't take a public stance against them! Why would a more extreme Haredi politician do so?

I am saying that this is something they need to do. not something they will do.

is there anything that can be done to push them in this direction?

What I don't get is why the haredi leadership - be it rabbonim or askanim or politicians - does not reject these people and their behavior.

Because they have many shared goals. Mainly that of solidifying Charedi control wherever they live in large numbers. Yes, that includes Bet Shemesh.

thats for sure, Mark. The only thing is when as a result of their actions such a strong wave of anti-haredi sentiment is washing through the country, rightfully or wrongfully, it is time to weigh whether there is more being lost by this relationship than being gained

Ben - I would have thought that all this anti-haredi talk would be enough to push them in that direction. Instead they just continue to ignore it as if it is not their issue.

Mark said it. Who remembers the last elections, when these elements (who usually don't vote on principle!) played a major part in Abutbol's win?

So long as the Haredi political leadership tells the Haredi religious leadership that they are either (a) helpful to the cause or (b) not an issue, they'll get Haredi support, minus the occasional Mishpacha "we-don't-agree-because-we're-moderate" article.

Until the members of the charedi community demand their rabbis to do something, nothing will be done.

You need to write paskelvim, not blogs :)

The hypocrisy of the haredi establishment STINKS. Any effort to keep haredi population or institutions out of a city is greeted with shrieks of 'anti-semitism' and 'anti-haredism.' But they can do the SAME to these 7 year old girls and their school. They don't want their schools in "their neighborhood." What's good for the goose is good for the sauce. Why can't other Israeli cities do all they can to keep out haredim the way haredim themselves try to keep out these 8 year old girls ???

Charedim cannot live with others, there is no way for them to bring up their children the way they prefer in a mixed environment. Therefore most Charedim have to live in separate cities where they can prevent their children from seeing frum people living in ways different than they are teaching them to live. It's sad, but it's a fact.

Rafi, if anything, the anti-charedi sentiment pushes the mainstream closer to the extremists- it shows them "See, we're all fighting on the same side!" I don't think the mainstream charedi leadership really sees anything lost by not denouncing the extremists. If they did, they would have forcefully and publicly denounced them long ago.

Jpost is reporting violence today in RBS?

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=250857

As an outsider, it worries me that this Israeli "Taliban" may one day control Israel's nuclear arsenal.
Hopefully the moderates can control them and reduce their influence.