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Jul 18, 2012
SHAS Wants to Close Yeshivot And Send Boys To Army
In a dramatic turn of events, a Haredi party might be forcing a situation in which they cause yeshiva boys to stop learning Torah and go to the army. Sounds like the opposite of everything they have been fighting for, but it is ok because it is not their own yeshivas affected.
As mentioned here the other day, a law was proposed and approved (initially) by which the status of the hesder yeshivot would be separated from that of the haredi yeshivot, by removing the status of "toraso umanuso" from hesder and having their deferments granted directly by percentage. that way they would not become a victim of the government's issue with the haredi community.
Having the hesder yeshivot find themselves in a resolved situation while the haredi yeshivot remain in a status that is unresolved was a problem for some people. Shas has filed an appeal against the resolution of the hesder yeshivot, thus deadlocking the process until the committee reconvenes to discuss it. The result of this might be, with the deadline of August 1 fast approaching, that the hesder yeshivot are now in the same situation as the haredi yeshivot and could all be drafted to the army as of August 1.
According to the reports on Srugim and Ladaat, Shas has decided that nobody is getting off easy. As long as there is no vote solving the situation for the haredi yeshivot, there will be no vote solving the situation for anyone else, including the hesder yeshivot.
In my model of "it's every man for himself", that includes trying to get benefit for myself even if others don't get, or even if it indirectly harms someone else. It does not include going to harm other people with no benefit for myself. This appeal does not make the haredi yeshiva situation any better. They gain nothing from it other than to hurt someone else for not being in as bad a situation as they are. That is petty, and they are clearly blind to the irony of them now possibly being the cause of yeshivot closing and boys going to the army, which is exactly what they are fighting against.
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As mentioned here the other day, a law was proposed and approved (initially) by which the status of the hesder yeshivot would be separated from that of the haredi yeshivot, by removing the status of "toraso umanuso" from hesder and having their deferments granted directly by percentage. that way they would not become a victim of the government's issue with the haredi community.
Having the hesder yeshivot find themselves in a resolved situation while the haredi yeshivot remain in a status that is unresolved was a problem for some people. Shas has filed an appeal against the resolution of the hesder yeshivot, thus deadlocking the process until the committee reconvenes to discuss it. The result of this might be, with the deadline of August 1 fast approaching, that the hesder yeshivot are now in the same situation as the haredi yeshivot and could all be drafted to the army as of August 1.
According to the reports on Srugim and Ladaat, Shas has decided that nobody is getting off easy. As long as there is no vote solving the situation for the haredi yeshivot, there will be no vote solving the situation for anyone else, including the hesder yeshivot.
In my model of "it's every man for himself", that includes trying to get benefit for myself even if others don't get, or even if it indirectly harms someone else. It does not include going to harm other people with no benefit for myself. This appeal does not make the haredi yeshiva situation any better. They gain nothing from it other than to hurt someone else for not being in as bad a situation as they are. That is petty, and they are clearly blind to the irony of them now possibly being the cause of yeshivot closing and boys going to the army, which is exactly what they are fighting against.
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Labels:
proposed law,
Shas,
yeshiva bachurim
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Talli Farkas wrote an article today on the irony of the hesder for the hesder:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4256754,00.html
she is right except for the fact that she is forgetting that at the end f the day the hesder guy is going to be going to the army while the haredi guy is not. and that si the entire difference and precisely why the government is willing to find an easy solution for the hesder situation.
ReplyDeleteI might add that a while back when all this started I wrote a post suggesting they work together, as while the government might now be dealing with the haredim, they might eventually move on to the hesder yeshivot and say their service is unequal as well (and then on to the girls who get an easy exemption).
ReplyDeleteSure enough it has come to be. The only thing I was wrong about was thet I thought it would come from the secular parties in the government. i did not expect the secular parties to be ok with it and the haredim to be the ones to attack hesder for this.
I reckon that Shas are not attacking the hesder for the hesder out of spite, but in order to get the datiim-leumiim off of their backs. If the yeshivot hesder are going to need to close then mafdal will abstain or find some other way out of voting for any proposal. In my opinion, either *all* the population should be offered some kind of deal to do 18 months army in return for some study or something else, or else *all* the population should serve a full 3 years. Anything else is both unfair and hypocritical.
ReplyDeletethat sounds reasonable. I have no problem with haredi hesder. i did see a similar recommendation recently, though I dont remember where it came from, that [part of] the solution should include haredi hesder-style yeshivot.. I think it was rejected just as emphatically as the rest of the suggestions.
ReplyDeleteWhat Shas is doing is utterly evil. The hesder guys combine Torah learning and service in the army - and in doing so, they show how people can both be frum and loyal to Torah, and still do their part along with their brethren. That must really burn up the haredi parties, because it exposes them for what they are - lying hypocrites who bring hatred, not respect, to the Torah. And nothing could underline that point more than this move by Shas. If that's what Torah learning makes people - babies, crying because they can't get their way - they can have it.
ReplyDeleteBaruch: I think that it is simply a cynical move to attempt to force the religious parties to help get the problem of the Charedi Yeshivot sorted out. I admit it doesn't look too good, but I don't think it has anything to do with hatred, just cheap politics.
DeleteThe only remaining question is therefore what hesder to offer hilonim?
ReplyDeleteWell, for starters there has always been Atudah Akademait. And there used to be the Nahal. And don't forget that a number of Atudaim then go on to academic jobs in the IDF that have them home every night and weekend. When I was in college in the 70s, I had a friend who was an atudai serving as a computer officer. He not only got his college education, but his service consisted of essentially continuing his career on campus, only in a uniform every day. There are also vocational HS programs that train the students for a trade, and then send them to get experience by working at that trade for their army service.
DeleteUnfortunately, I think the issue is more evil. I think many haredim think someone else should risk their necks. People don't complain about Hesder, for the most part, because the Hesder students serve in combat units whenever their profile allows it. Many even forgo continuing Hesder to serve as officers or in special units. The haredim don't want to be expected to do the same. The haredi culture of entitlement has not raised them with images of heroes who gave their lives for the Jewish people. If contemporary haredi heroes lose their lives, it is as martyrs - meaning victims; but not as people who went forth into danger to fight and change the course of events.
It's the old expression, biting off your nose to spit in your face. The Chareidi leadership has become so consumed with self-righteousness they'd rather burn everything down, even their own homes, rather than see someone else have a nicer place.
ReplyDeleteI don't see a problem with it. Politics is politics, and Shas needs the Hesder and Dati Leumi to be voting along with them. By giving the hesder yeshivot an exemption, dati leumi and mizrachnik's have no benefit of siding with the haredim.
ReplyDeleteIt's clear as day that the hesder yeshivot aren't "sharing the burden" either, so I don't see the issue with Shas doubling their bargaining chips.
Yehudah, how do you define "sharing the burden"? If you mean only in terms of years IN THE FIELD during the original mandatory service period - MAYBE you could make that claim. But Hesder has been mostly well-accepted over the years in the IDF because they provide high quality manpower, they provide a concentrated source of ready call-up soldiers, they serve in the reserves for the rest of their lives just like any other combat soldiers. And don't forget, most of the IDF combat manpower is indeed reserve soldiers. As they continue their lives, they provide reservists who have a very low rate of avoiding call-up, who maintain high morale and patriotism in their units. And, as I have already noted, some number actually end up leaving Hesder to play roles in the officer corps and in special units. Over the decades, the general thinking in the IDF general staff and the MOD has been that they get their money's worth and then some for the 'investment' they make in Hesder. Hesder is in the national interest; as the old Nahal was perceived to be for a long time. Unfortunately, their place in the military cemeteries also shows that.
DeleteShas needs to be very careful. Some percentage of their voters ALREADY serve in the army!
ReplyDeleteMark, most Shas voters serve in the army.
DeleteAs a matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken, most of the MKs from Shas have also served in the army.
DeleteSo, if Shas is too anti army service, they could potentially lose votes.
Delete