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Nov 19, 2013
Banning the Rabbanut from performing weddings
Update: I have been convinced that my opinion stated below is almost definitely wrong and based on wrong information, lack of information, or misunderstanding.. so ignore the opinion stated below..
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A secular organization is promoting a ban on the Rabbanut - they are calling on people to not use the Rabbanut services for marriages.
They are upset with the process employed by the Rabbanut for investigating the Jewishness of the marrying couple. "When they drafted us to the army they did not ask us to prove our Jewishness, they collect our taxes without caring if we are Jewish or not. Why in preparation for the most fortunate day of our lives do we need to go through 7 layers of hell?"
The proposed solution is to teach the Rabbanut a lesson in customer service and customer retention. From today we will no longer wed in the Rabbanut!
So, the Haredim already do not marry in the Rabbanut or use just about any of its services. The secular are now not going to be using the Rabbanut services (and many already do not want to but only do so because they are forced to). The Dati Leumi use the Rabbanut, but even they are increasingly finding alternatives, whether it is Tzohar or the various haredi Badatz organizations... So, as I have said before, the Rabbanut is almost irrelevant to Israeli society. Maybe it is time to do away with the Rabbanut completely.
If one might respond saying that how will we keep track of marriages, we will need to start a sefer yuchsin, there will be a proliferation of mamzerim and invalid marriages.. I look around the world - in the US and in Europe the religious do not keep a sefer yuchsin, there is no central jewish registry for recording marriages and tracking mamzerim. And people seem to marry just fine using private rabbis and doing their own investigations into family backgrounds. We have not found a proliferation of mamzerim running around the United States and Europe due to the lack of a "Rabbanut-style" organization controlling things. I think we could do just fine without them. Personally I do not have a problem with them, but I do not see the point or purpose in having them.
******************************************************
A secular organization is promoting a ban on the Rabbanut - they are calling on people to not use the Rabbanut services for marriages.
They are upset with the process employed by the Rabbanut for investigating the Jewishness of the marrying couple. "When they drafted us to the army they did not ask us to prove our Jewishness, they collect our taxes without caring if we are Jewish or not. Why in preparation for the most fortunate day of our lives do we need to go through 7 layers of hell?"
The proposed solution is to teach the Rabbanut a lesson in customer service and customer retention. From today we will no longer wed in the Rabbanut!
So, the Haredim already do not marry in the Rabbanut or use just about any of its services. The secular are now not going to be using the Rabbanut services (and many already do not want to but only do so because they are forced to). The Dati Leumi use the Rabbanut, but even they are increasingly finding alternatives, whether it is Tzohar or the various haredi Badatz organizations... So, as I have said before, the Rabbanut is almost irrelevant to Israeli society. Maybe it is time to do away with the Rabbanut completely.
If one might respond saying that how will we keep track of marriages, we will need to start a sefer yuchsin, there will be a proliferation of mamzerim and invalid marriages.. I look around the world - in the US and in Europe the religious do not keep a sefer yuchsin, there is no central jewish registry for recording marriages and tracking mamzerim. And people seem to marry just fine using private rabbis and doing their own investigations into family backgrounds. We have not found a proliferation of mamzerim running around the United States and Europe due to the lack of a "Rabbanut-style" organization controlling things. I think we could do just fine without them. Personally I do not have a problem with them, but I do not see the point or purpose in having them.
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And Orthodox people will not marry Reform people at all. American Jewish communities are becoming completely polarized. You really want Israel to become more segregated, with families telling their children they can't date their neighbor?
ReplyDeleteYeah, we know it doesn't affect the 10% of country who are haredi. And it won't affect the 6% of the country that are anti-religious secular. But do you really want to screw over 60% of the country??
I don't see the connection. Orthodox won't marry Reform because it's likely that a Reform "Jew" is not Jewish according to Halachah. And even if they are, why would an Orthodox Jew marry someone who isn't Orthodox?
Deletei think he meant many orthodox won't marry a BT.
DeleteI believe that in Britain (certainly and I think other parts of Europe) they do keep records of who is Jewish and maintain lists of Mamzerim. For this reason any marriage between two British people is (normally) quickly approved. Any marriage with someone born in the USA who is not religious takes much longer for the London Beis Din to approve, and in some cases the United Synagogues (of Britain) will not permit any of their Rabbis to perform the wedding service.
ReplyDeleteNotwithstanding all of the complaints of the Rabbanut (and there are many, valid complaints), keeping lists and registries is a very important public service which they provide for us and our children (and future generations).
One of the reasons it's so complicated here is that so many people are the first generation getting married in Israel, so there aren't family records.
ReplyDeleteAnd please don't use the anarchy of the USA. Also, remember that this is the Holy Land and we must take that fact seriously.
the millet system doesn't prevent what you call anarchy, that's a myth.
DeleteThe millet system?
Deleteyep, millet system. that is the name of turkish system giving selected churches control over their parishioners.
DeleteThe vast majority of non-religious want to marry traditionally. The secular minority are merely more vocal and given more visibility. Breaking the rabanut is not going to satisfy this secular minority, and others who are marrying non-Jews, or rather cannot get married in Israel because it is a mixed marriage.
ReplyDeleteIt is too bad that the Haredim are working against the rabanut and now the Bayit Yehudi is letting itself being dragged into that as well by yesh Atid and frankly, itself.
Too lazy to cut and paste here.... Banning the Israeli Rabbinate
ReplyDeleteAs others have pointed out (including my brother), you can't compare Britain to the US.
ReplyDeleteIn Britain, the majority of Jews marry through the (Orthodox) United Synagogues which has extensive records. This is similar to most of Europe, South America, South Africa and Australia (and New Zealand) where the default expression of Judaism is Orthodox.
In the US the system is much less structured, and ask any Ba'al Tshuva from the US, it is often very difficult for them to confirm that they are really Jewish, and I'm talking about Jews who care about their own Jewish Status.
General question: In the UK, what is the ratio of Haredi and Orthodox affiliated Jews compared to Conservative, Reform, and unaffiliated?
Deletemichael
Deletethe majority of jews marry through united synagogue or the majority of jews who marry another jew do so in a united synagogue service? in other words, what is the percentage of intermarriage in britain?