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Jul 22, 2015
Interesting Psak: correcting mistakes in the torah reading
Rav Yonatan Raziel of Maale Adumim issued a radical psak that is really straight out of the Shulchan Aruch. It is only radical because most of us do not keep the halacha as it is in the Shulchan Aruch - it seems somehow the custom became to act differently, even against the ruling of the Shulchan Aruch.
Rav Raziel write sin the new edition of Tchumin that when the person in shul reading the Torah makes a mistake, people in the congregation should not correct him - even if he left out letters, and definitely not if he just messed up pronunciation or cantillation.
Rac Raziel explains that the problem with this is that it embarrasses the reader, which is a torah-based prohibition, in order to accomplish a better torah reading which is only rabbinic in nature.
It seems the reason most congregations correct the reader when he reads with a mistake is out of concern for the opinion of the Rambam who says that the congregation will not have fulfilled their obligation of reading the Torah if the reader makes mistakes. Rav Raziel says that even out of concern of the Rambam's opinion, still it is better to not embarrass the reader even at the expense of fulfilling the obligation of Torah reading.
Many opinions, including the Shulchan Aruch, argue on the Rambam and say to not correct the reader in public, so as not to embarrass him.
Another problem Rav Raziel points to is that all this noise of corrections is also inappropriate in shul, but even worse it distracts the congregation from focusing on the meaning of the davening and torah reading.
source: INN
I do know that in some shuls there is a gabbai appointed to quietly correct any mistakes and the other members of the congregation do not.
radical psak, but not really.
Rav Raziel write sin the new edition of Tchumin that when the person in shul reading the Torah makes a mistake, people in the congregation should not correct him - even if he left out letters, and definitely not if he just messed up pronunciation or cantillation.
Rac Raziel explains that the problem with this is that it embarrasses the reader, which is a torah-based prohibition, in order to accomplish a better torah reading which is only rabbinic in nature.
It seems the reason most congregations correct the reader when he reads with a mistake is out of concern for the opinion of the Rambam who says that the congregation will not have fulfilled their obligation of reading the Torah if the reader makes mistakes. Rav Raziel says that even out of concern of the Rambam's opinion, still it is better to not embarrass the reader even at the expense of fulfilling the obligation of Torah reading.
Many opinions, including the Shulchan Aruch, argue on the Rambam and say to not correct the reader in public, so as not to embarrass him.
Another problem Rav Raziel points to is that all this noise of corrections is also inappropriate in shul, but even worse it distracts the congregation from focusing on the meaning of the davening and torah reading.
source: INN
I do know that in some shuls there is a gabbai appointed to quietly correct any mistakes and the other members of the congregation do not.
radical psak, but not really.
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As a sometimes ba'al qore' I have to tell you that I am very pleased by this.
ReplyDeleteEver notice that a lot of times, those yelling out in schul are wrong OR are correcting vowels, which do not change the meaning, OR correcting a minhag of pronouncing consonants? Seriously? (sigh)
I'm used to two gabbaim. One of them, if not two will catch an error.
This takes care (I think) of the problem of embarrassing the ba'al qore'. Yelling out from the peanut gallery also throws off my concentration. Maybe that's just me, but still, I do not find it to be in the least bit helpful.
Interestingly enough, the Ramba"m also says one should read himself, when getting an aliyah. Can these dudes yelling out do that? Then maybe they sure think twice about yelling out, which is often just a show to show how "frum" and "knowledgeable" they are.
As a Ba'al Kriyah, I will state that I want to be corrected, on pronunciation for certain, possibly on Trup as well. Missing a Pesik can change the meaning of the phrase, and I like to be M'dakdayk.
ReplyDeleteNot being corrected would just lead me to believe I am doing better than I really am.
does it matter to you if you are corrected by the general congregation who call otu corrections that maybe you hear, maybe you dont, cause you to stop and wait to figure out what they are correcting, or if it is the gabbai next to you who tells you to stop and what you did wrong?
DeleteThat's what the gabbaim are for.
DeleteTrup/Trope??!! OY!! I cringe whenever I hear that bastardized word, just like my Hazzanus teacher did.
Ta'amei HaMiqrah, please!
In SOME schuls, maybe not yours, when a bunch ba'al gaivah amei ha'aretz are yelling sometimes incorrect thing, it is not helpful.
Which pesiq? There many. As long you pause, it doesn't matter which one you use. You do realize that pesiq means pause, right?
I am unaware of any halakha reqireing the correction of Ta'amei HaMiqrah.
With regard to most ta'amei ha mikra, you are correct, but if one replaces a ta'am meshares with a ta'am mafsik, or vice versa, it changes the meaning of the passuk and must be corrected. Rafi - What is your source for the ruling of the Shulchan Aruck? He does not say it in Orach Chaim 142, which is where he rules that the ba'al korei should be corrected.
Deleteright there the Rama says only to correct mistakes that change the meaning, but minor mistakes should only be corrected privately.
Deleteon the other hand the tur says not to correct it all, and then he brings the opinion of the rambam who argues. the beis yosef there discusses which type of mistake would be corrected and which not
Yehoshua, You are quite correct. Apologies for the lack of clarity.
DeleteI am quite conversant, not to say expert, in Dikduk as it relates to Kriyat Hatorah, including the actual purpose of Ta'amei Hamikrah.
DeleteMy Shul is fairly good about minimizing the number of correctors, but I know the readings well enough to know if the correction is actually correct. I also accept that sometimes the correcor simply didn't hear me clearly, so I'll reread a word or phrase. It doesn't happen often enough to approach annoying.
Rafi: So, basically, your statement that "Many opinions, including the Shulchan Aruch, argue on the Rambam and say to not correct the reader in public, so as not to embarrass him" was not accurate. In fact, both the Shulchan Aruch and the Rema say if the mistake changes the meaning, it must be corrected immediately, in public, so that the verse should be read again. Their dispute is whether mistakes that do not change the meaning need to be corrected immediately so that the verse should be read again. In addition, you are misquoting the Rema. He does not write "minor mistakes should only be corrected privately." He writes: גוערין בו, which means, roughly, "we yell at him."
Deletesure, I'll agree it was inaccurate. the article I linked to as one of the sources references a number of sources, and I bundled it all together as "the shulchan aruch" for brevity's sake.
Deleteregarding the rama, it is (to me at least) that "yell at him" is in private, at a later time, not right there. after all, he just said we dont make him reread the words where he made a mistake. if we are yelling at him right there in public, isnt that like making him go reread the words? it seems obvious the rama means in private
The Rema is saying that there is no need to go back and reread. The distinction between private and public is yours and yours alone.
DeleteI am sure it is not my chiddush and that is how I learned-was taught -in shiurim over the years. I will do some research, but I am sure that is the accepted definition of what it means.
Deleteit makes no sense to say otherwise. we stop him and scream at him in public right there in the middle of the torah readin? but dont make him reread the word he said wrong? that makes no sense. we dont make him reread it and later we yell at him so that he wont make such mistakes int he future. seems like the only logical explanation of the halacha.
as I said, I will try to do some research.
Avi, Yes, I am sure that you are.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad that you don't have the same problem at your schul that others do.
BTW, you don't happen to live in Ramat Bet Shemesh, do you?
Proud member of KSY!
DeleteKSY?
Deleteקהילת שבתי ישורון
Deleteשבטי! Doh!
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