Aug 13, 2020
Mountain Dew with Lemon and the KLBD hechsher in Israel
Mountain Dew with Lemon.
Some people really love Mountain Dew. It is one of those American drinks that is difficult to find here, but some stores sometimes have it in stock imported from the USA or Europe. Just by writing the words Mountain Dew I am sure some people's mouths are watering.
Someone sent me the following issue:
This fellow purchased this can of Mountain Dew (with Lemon), in Israel (the specific store is irrelevant). On the importer Hebrew label it is labeled as under the hechsher is from the KLBD - the London Beis Din. The drink is manufactured by Britvic Soft Drinks in Hertfordshire, United Kingdom. It is imported to Israel by a company from Shchem (Nablus) called Najach. It is difficult to see on the can itself as the label covers much of the original information, as the import label often does, but the can of Mountain Dew is manufactured in Europe, maybe Poland or the Czech Republic.
The fellow was suspicious, or maybe curious, about the Arab importer with the KLBD hechsher, and sent the image of the can and label to the KLBD to verify that they actually do authorize it.
The KLBD responded that they do not certify the product in Israel.
Now, honestly, that si a little bit vague and avoiding the question. They do not authorize it in Israel, but maybe in the UK they do. Maybe they never approved their hechsher to be used for export, but the product itself remains certified by them, though they take no authority on anything outside of hte United Kingdom. Or maybe they don't authorize it at all.
I looked on the KLBD website using their product search. I searched for Mountain Dew. The result said that Mountain Dew "Citrus", which I assume includes lemon, possibly, is authorized by KLBD. At the bottom of the page, as on every product search, there is a disclaimer stating that KLBD only authorizes products for the UK market.
Yet KLBD says they do not authorize this product for Israel.
I suspect, and I stress that I suspect, they do authorize the product in the UK, made in Poland or wherever and imported to the UK (as the disclaimer says it only applies to products made for the UK market - not int he UK but for the UK), but do not extend their authorization to Israel. That is why they mentioned Israel in their response rather than just saying they do not certify the product.
The label on the product is clearly inaccurate and misleading, the question is if the product is actually kosher or not.
The question is, the product sold in Israel and does not bear a hechsher - does it stop being kosher once it is loaded onto the boat or plane at the UK docks, or does it remain kosher but not certified?
Interestingly, by being imported by a Palestinian operation out of Shchem instead of by an Israeli, it did not "need" the approval of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.
So is Mountain Dew with Lemon sold in Israel imported by Najach from Shchem with the KLBD on the import label kosher or not? I don't know. I will leave it to each of you to decide for yourself and to consult with your rabbi or local kashrut expert. I think we are missing some information - such as is this can imported from the UK and is the original certified as kosher by the KLBD while in the UK? If the answer to that is yes, then I think one can consider it kosher in Israel, if one chooses to, and drink the Mountain Dew with Lemon, even though it bears no certification. If not, if it is imported from elsewhere other than the UK, or if the KLBD does not certify this specific flavor or factory run from wherever, even while sold in the United Kingdom, then it might not be kosher.
If any of you out there have more information, please feel free to fill us in.
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https://isitkosher.uk/#mountain%20dew
ReplyDeleteMountain Dew Citrus is approved in the UK but not certified. Which means there is no legal agreement between KLBD and the company and the company won't be paying for the approval. The KLBD will normally just correspond with the company to check ingredients and what else is manufactured on the production line.
Does מאושר mean approved or certified? Google gives me both!
The KLBD don't normally approve products for markets outside the uk, since companies sometimes use different ingredients (and factories) for different markets. So if you see stickers in Israel like the above, they are normally be fraudulent.
The drink may still be kosher but the KLBD don't have the capacity to check every factory and every version of 1000s of products they already approve so you'd someway to determine this, possibly by correspondence with the manufacturer.
it is well known that kashrut organizations in Europe and elsewhere do not work the same way or have the same mission as kashrut organizations in the United States and Israel. In Europe and elsewhere they are less businesses and more community organizations providing a service to the local community. They work differently by approving often, but not always, without actual supervision, and by using lists and not printing the kashrut logo on the product.
DeleteThe policy of the LBD is to permit ALL soft drinks unless they include real grape juice or carmine. No supervision needed. So this product would be considered kosher by the LBD (and Manchester BD, by the way) based on the ingredient list. Flavourings etc. are not a kashrut issue. Whether this product was certified by them, I have no idea, but as I said, it's irrelevant. Cheers
ReplyDeleteinteresting. thanks
DeleteMountain Dew Citrus is listed on isitkosher.uk as an energy drink which is not included in the general soft drinks rule.
DeleteThe question was asked in 2013 on their Facebook group. I don't seem to be able to add a screen shot here so you will need to add yourself to their group to view this link.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/klbdkosherdirect/permalink/10151570140020831/
At the time KLBD had not investigated so it wasn't approved.
I don't know the drink so not too sure about the different names - Mountain Dew Citrus, Mountain Dew Energy etc. Mountain Dew with Lemon. If someone is unsure they can always post a question and KLBD are very good at clarifying, though most things have already been asked so you can just search for them on the group
Here's the text:
12th April 2013
Yisroel Fletcher: Is Mountain Dew energy drink kosher????
Michal Emanuel: We do not have information about Mountain Dew Energy Drink, so it is not kosher approved.
Katie Schwartz: I was under the impression that drinks are by default Kosher unless there are issues with the ingredients?
Michal Emanuel: The general guideline is for soft drinks, not energy drinks.
Brett Bernstein: Is this defined purely by what the drink markets itself as? The distinction seems to be very blurred.
Michal Emanuel: Yes
interesting but I wonder if the energy drink, that does not qualify for the same guidelines, is the same drink or something totally different. Maybe they have a line of energy drinks, separate from their line of soft drinks.
Deletesomeone might think of it like this - if he were in the airport in London and bought a can of Mountain Dew that he knows is authorized bythe KLBD, and stuck it in his bag. He flew out of the UK to Patis or to jersualem or to New York or wherever. That can of Mountain Dew in his bag is no longer authorized by the KLBD because he is no longer in the UK. But he knows it is kosher because he bought i in the UK, so if he wants to he can choose to drink it.
ReplyDeleteif this shipment of Mountain Dew in israel was imported from the UK, we know it is kosher as authorized locally by the KLBD, but it has no authorization once it leaves the UK. So if we know it came from the UK (which in this case I am not sure we know that with confidence, but theoretically), then we also know it is kosher and he can choose to drink it. The real issue is if it was imported from the UK or not (or maybe also form the same factory that makes it for the UK).
It can be confusing and the KLBD facebook group is very good at clarifying most details.
DeleteThat person has misunderstood the KLBD policy. He bought a product in the uk for the uk market so its approved irrespective of where he takes it and consumes it.
The second paragrough requires one additional crucial check that KLBD don't normally do. The imported products need to be exactly the same as the products produced for the uk market e.g. same factory, same production line.
I don't think it necessary needs to be made in the uk but made for the uk market and normally sold in the uk.
This case really brings up a fundamental kashrus question. Let’s illustrate with an example. Assume the OU certifies Hershey Chocolate, how do we know that a Hershey Chocolate bar in a store was not manufactured by another company which used a fraudulent Hershey packaging? Or if the OU would only certify Hershey Chocolate manufactured in USA, maybe this chocolate bar was manufactured in another country and a fraudulent USA label was attached? Even if you brought the chocolate bar to the OU, how could they know if a fraudulent USA label was used? A system would need to be put in place to document the authenticity – maybe by having only authorized resellers who get audited. But if an unreliable seller is selling Hershey Chocolate, they might be using a fraudulent USA label.
ReplyDeleteBB
This case really brings up a fundamental kashrus question.
ReplyDeleteLet’s illustrate with an example. Assume the OU certifies Hershey Chocolate, how do we know that a Hershey Chocolate bar in a store was not manufactured by another company which used a fraudulent Hershey packaging?
Or if the OU would only certify Hershey Chocolate manufactured in USA, maybe this chocolate bar was manufactured in another country and a fraudulent USA label was attached?
Even if you brought the chocolate bar to the OU, how could they know if a fraudulent USA label was used?
A system would need to be put in place to document the authenticity – maybe by having only authorized resellers who get audited.
But if an unreliable seller is selling Hershey Chocolate, they might be using a fraudulent USA label.
do you really have to be choshesh for this? if yes, you cant eat anything made from ingredients that you didnt grow yourself and make yourself.
Delete