Showing posts with label hooligans. Show all posts
Showing posts with label hooligans. Show all posts
Jan 13, 2020
Court gives further extension to City of Bet Shemesh for "tzniyus" sign removal
Actualic is reporting that the courts have given the City of Bet Shemesh another extension, this one for an additional 9 months, of the deadline for removal of the illegal "tzniyus" signs hanging in parts of RBS B.
The previous deadline had been 50 days from what happened to be the last elections of Bet Shemesh. After Dr Bloch won the elections and became mayor, she reasonably requested an extension to learn the matter and try to work her magic. Back in the day of the previous administration, the mayor had been warned by the courts that his inaction would earn him hefty fines along with possibly even jail time.
Now the City appealed the end of the deadline with a request for another extension, claiming that work is being done to resolve the matter and remove the signs peacefully and with full cooperation and dialogue among all parties. The appeal pointed to a number of details required by the court that have already been implemented (probably installation of security cameras, among other points). The court granted the extension, and the new deadline is set at September 30, 2020.
MK Moshe Abutbol (Shas), also the former mayor under whose watch this issue began, blessed the court decision for the extension thereby recognizing the complexity of the city of Bet Shemesh, Abutbol laments the fact that the courts did not show such consideration in his days, even threatening to put him in jail. Abutbol suggests that such unfair and unequal decisions are causing the people to lose faith in the justice system.
I don't know what Abutbol is complaining about. he too was granted extensions when he requested them, but Abutbol made no serious effort to resolve the matter - he did not even install the security cameras he had promised to install in the area. Bloch did it with nary a peep from the locals in that hotbed neighborhood of extremism.
The previous deadline had been 50 days from what happened to be the last elections of Bet Shemesh. After Dr Bloch won the elections and became mayor, she reasonably requested an extension to learn the matter and try to work her magic. Back in the day of the previous administration, the mayor had been warned by the courts that his inaction would earn him hefty fines along with possibly even jail time.
Now the City appealed the end of the deadline with a request for another extension, claiming that work is being done to resolve the matter and remove the signs peacefully and with full cooperation and dialogue among all parties. The appeal pointed to a number of details required by the court that have already been implemented (probably installation of security cameras, among other points). The court granted the extension, and the new deadline is set at September 30, 2020.
MK Moshe Abutbol (Shas), also the former mayor under whose watch this issue began, blessed the court decision for the extension thereby recognizing the complexity of the city of Bet Shemesh, Abutbol laments the fact that the courts did not show such consideration in his days, even threatening to put him in jail. Abutbol suggests that such unfair and unequal decisions are causing the people to lose faith in the justice system.
I don't know what Abutbol is complaining about. he too was granted extensions when he requested them, but Abutbol made no serious effort to resolve the matter - he did not even install the security cameras he had promised to install in the area. Bloch did it with nary a peep from the locals in that hotbed neighborhood of extremism.
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Jan 1, 2009
The Sam Malone method for the violence in Bet Shemesh
Since the violent incident in Bet Shemesh on a Friday night a few weeks ago, many have asked what the police and the new mayor are doing to curtail the spread and increase of such incidents. The answer given has been, from the police, that they are investigating. From the mayors office we have heard that they will not tolerate violence and there must be talks between groups and he is checking out the situation. blah blah blah.
I was wondering how long it takes to investigate an incident that everyone in Bet Shemesh, and many elsewhere, know exactly who perpetrated. It has started to seem like the police and the mayor have simply just been trying to push people off as a way of buying time hoping everyone would forget as the flames die down, and just hope no more incidents happen to re-enflame the situation.
I personally am a big fan of the Sam Malone method to problem solving (i.e. If you ignore a problem long enough, it will go away). but I am not the mayor of a city.
The following update appeared yesterday on the Bet Shemesh email list:
I asked someone about it and he told me that Oz Eliasi, the head of the Bet Shemesh police, called in a number of activists in Sheinfeld and Aviv for a meeting.
Eliasi told them that the police will not protect them. Moreover, Eliasi told them that if anyone from Sheinfeld tries to protect their children from the kannoim, they will arrest them!
There are basically two possibilities as to what happened - either the police have been threatened by the rabbonim of the kannoim (mainly Rav Rosenberger and Rav Kopshitz), and the police, as usual prefer to not stand up to the threats of rioting and violence. Or, and this might be even worse, the mayor himself told the police to back down.
So, because the police are afraid of the hooligans, now the victims are under threat of arrest if they dare to protect themselves. Looks like when Abutbol said he wants to give the city back to the residents, and to let the residents win, he meant only a few residents who threaten violence.
I was wondering how long it takes to investigate an incident that everyone in Bet Shemesh, and many elsewhere, know exactly who perpetrated. It has started to seem like the police and the mayor have simply just been trying to push people off as a way of buying time hoping everyone would forget as the flames die down, and just hope no more incidents happen to re-enflame the situation.
I personally am a big fan of the Sam Malone method to problem solving (i.e. If you ignore a problem long enough, it will go away). but I am not the mayor of a city.
The following update appeared yesterday on the Bet Shemesh email list:
I have been informed that the police chief has notified people in our community that:It is therefore clear to me that the police in no way intend to help protect the citizens of Bet Shemesh from continued violent attacks by those elements of the chareidi neighborhoods who are the true instigators of the confrontations and the violence.
- he does not plan on having an increased police presence at the Hayarden location to protect the people who will undoubtedly show up
- he actually plans on arresting anyone from our community who shows up to that location on Friday night as "instigators".
I asked someone about it and he told me that Oz Eliasi, the head of the Bet Shemesh police, called in a number of activists in Sheinfeld and Aviv for a meeting.
Eliasi told them that the police will not protect them. Moreover, Eliasi told them that if anyone from Sheinfeld tries to protect their children from the kannoim, they will arrest them!
There are basically two possibilities as to what happened - either the police have been threatened by the rabbonim of the kannoim (mainly Rav Rosenberger and Rav Kopshitz), and the police, as usual prefer to not stand up to the threats of rioting and violence. Or, and this might be even worse, the mayor himself told the police to back down.
So, because the police are afraid of the hooligans, now the victims are under threat of arrest if they dare to protect themselves. Looks like when Abutbol said he wants to give the city back to the residents, and to let the residents win, he meant only a few residents who threaten violence.
Sep 16, 2008
Is Bet Shemesh in or out of the Green Line?
If you thought that dispute the Palestinian people (and their sympathizers) have with Israel is only regarding land over the "Green Line", somebody out there thinks otherwise.
The sign below, in Bet Shemesh which is well within the "Green Line" and supposedly undisputed territory, was defaced with graffiti declaring it Palestinian territory....

I don't get the connection. An anti-Lerner slogan would be understandable. An anti-Dati Leumi would be understandable, and anti-Zionist statement would even be understandable, a pro-different candidate would be understandable. But a declaration that this is Palestinian territory makes no sense. Unless the person who sprayed it was an agent of Hamas...
The sign below, in Bet Shemesh which is well within the "Green Line" and supposedly undisputed territory, was defaced with graffiti declaring it Palestinian territory....

I don't get the connection. An anti-Lerner slogan would be understandable. An anti-Dati Leumi would be understandable, and anti-Zionist statement would even be understandable, a pro-different candidate would be understandable. But a declaration that this is Palestinian territory makes no sense. Unless the person who sprayed it was an agent of Hamas...
Labels:
bet shemesh,
haredim,
hooligans
May 22, 2008
expect action tonight
The Badatz has been advertising warnings against various activites in meron that have been prevalent in previous years.
the way up to the kever Rashbi in Meron has become something similar to a carnival. Companies have stands offering their products, politicians have stands, social groups have stands, booksellers, computer software companies, Chabad, Breslav and many other groups. They put up stands on the mountain leading up to Rashbi. They sell items, they have video screens showing films of whatever they are offering, etc.
the authorities have been able to make some changes in recent years; they have made some of the roads leading up to Rashbi to be "mehadrin" in which some of those activites cannot happen, separate buses, separate sides of street, rules about what can be displayed and what kind of food sold,, etc.
The Badatz has warned that this year they will not put up with the video screens or with stalls selling anything but sifrei kodesh.
Here is one sample of a warning from the Badatz:
They threaten violence against those who do not heed the warning, and they blame the potential victim saying you have been warned so do not complain afterwards about any loss of money and damage incurred.
Anyway, there are reports of specific threats and knowledge, both by organizers and by police, of the identities of those who are planning on making trouble with violence and attempting to damage others property tonight in meron.
Lo and behold, the three names that have been talked about as those who will be there are oour friendly neighborhood hooligans from RBS B. They have become more violent than their counterparts in yerushalayim and they are the ones expected by the national police to be perpetrating, or at least attempting to, violence tonight in Meron.
the way up to the kever Rashbi in Meron has become something similar to a carnival. Companies have stands offering their products, politicians have stands, social groups have stands, booksellers, computer software companies, Chabad, Breslav and many other groups. They put up stands on the mountain leading up to Rashbi. They sell items, they have video screens showing films of whatever they are offering, etc.
the authorities have been able to make some changes in recent years; they have made some of the roads leading up to Rashbi to be "mehadrin" in which some of those activites cannot happen, separate buses, separate sides of street, rules about what can be displayed and what kind of food sold,, etc.
The Badatz has warned that this year they will not put up with the video screens or with stalls selling anything but sifrei kodesh.
Here is one sample of a warning from the Badatz:
They threaten violence against those who do not heed the warning, and they blame the potential victim saying you have been warned so do not complain afterwards about any loss of money and damage incurred.Anyway, there are reports of specific threats and knowledge, both by organizers and by police, of the identities of those who are planning on making trouble with violence and attempting to damage others property tonight in meron.
Lo and behold, the three names that have been talked about as those who will be there are oour friendly neighborhood hooligans from RBS B. They have become more violent than their counterparts in yerushalayim and they are the ones expected by the national police to be perpetrating, or at least attempting to, violence tonight in Meron.
Feb 10, 2008
giving legitimacy to the hooligans
The hooligans in RBS B opened up a Kupa shel Tzdaka. Generally those who run the local Kupa have a lot of power, especially in these types of neighborhoods, because they control the money and the tone of the neighborhood.
In any case, some of the money from the Kupa went towards tznius signs (to intimidate the people of Sheinfeld), along with other signs protesting various breaches. They admitted as much to a number of people, because they were proud of what they did and they thought they would garner support for it.
Money given for a kupa shel tzdaka should be used to support the needy and not for these types of things. If they come asking for money, make sure to ask them what the money will be used for.
Rav Eidensohn, who heads the kupa of RBSA, spoke last Motzei Shabbos at the inaugural dinner of the hooligan kupa. (not last night's kupa shel Tzdaka dinner - this happened the week before) This gives them great legitimacy because he heads the Kupa of RBS A which does great work and already is a large organization with a great reputation.
When asked why he was going to be speaking there (someone present at the conversation told me) considering it gives legitimacy to the hooligans and they will use it to control their neighborhood even though they are a minority within it, he responded that he has to give them legitimacy because otherwise RBS will become too modern.
The Kupa of RBS A has nothing to do with this. They do not give money to the hooligans, they do not support them, they do not pay for the signs in RBS A or anything like it. The Kupa does great work.
I asked the Kupa about their policies. They do not give money outside of RBS A. They service the poor of RBS A only and act as a shliach to pass on the donations of residents to the poor of the neighborhood. As well, the Kupa does not support the signs or any of the other fights that happen. They are a tzedaka organization, not a business or organization with interests in other areas. The board members of the Kupa are all very busy and have no head for, and for sure no time for, narishkeit.
So, again, the Kupa shel Tzedaka of RBS A is not involved and does not get involved in these things. They do not support these people or their actions.
The question is why (some of) the people running it feel the need to legitimize the behavior going on in RBS B...
the latest from RBS B is from an email sent out on the Vo Violence in bet Shemesh email list. It described a story (not the same as the original story that happened a few weeks ago) where the "hooligans" were able to see into someone's window across the street in Sheinfeld and saw a large screen TV. Instead of putting up curtains or controlling yourself to not look in someone else's window, they went a different route. They also chose not to use the violent method. They went to a representative in Sheinfeld and told him about the problem. They all went to the guy and politely asked him to move his tv and adjust it so it is not visible from the window.
On the one hand it is very nice that they found a peaceful solution.
On the other hand, they are simply finding news ways to control the area to fit their desires. Instead of putting up curtains, they went into someone else's house and convinced him to alter his behavior for them.
So instead of knocking them down and telling them to live peacefully with others and do what they want in their own homes, they are being empowered and legitimized.
In any case, some of the money from the Kupa went towards tznius signs (to intimidate the people of Sheinfeld), along with other signs protesting various breaches. They admitted as much to a number of people, because they were proud of what they did and they thought they would garner support for it.
Money given for a kupa shel tzdaka should be used to support the needy and not for these types of things. If they come asking for money, make sure to ask them what the money will be used for.
Rav Eidensohn, who heads the kupa of RBSA, spoke last Motzei Shabbos at the inaugural dinner of the hooligan kupa. (not last night's kupa shel Tzdaka dinner - this happened the week before) This gives them great legitimacy because he heads the Kupa of RBS A which does great work and already is a large organization with a great reputation.
When asked why he was going to be speaking there (someone present at the conversation told me) considering it gives legitimacy to the hooligans and they will use it to control their neighborhood even though they are a minority within it, he responded that he has to give them legitimacy because otherwise RBS will become too modern.
The Kupa of RBS A has nothing to do with this. They do not give money to the hooligans, they do not support them, they do not pay for the signs in RBS A or anything like it. The Kupa does great work.
I asked the Kupa about their policies. They do not give money outside of RBS A. They service the poor of RBS A only and act as a shliach to pass on the donations of residents to the poor of the neighborhood. As well, the Kupa does not support the signs or any of the other fights that happen. They are a tzedaka organization, not a business or organization with interests in other areas. The board members of the Kupa are all very busy and have no head for, and for sure no time for, narishkeit.
So, again, the Kupa shel Tzedaka of RBS A is not involved and does not get involved in these things. They do not support these people or their actions.
The question is why (some of) the people running it feel the need to legitimize the behavior going on in RBS B...
the latest from RBS B is from an email sent out on the Vo Violence in bet Shemesh email list. It described a story (not the same as the original story that happened a few weeks ago) where the "hooligans" were able to see into someone's window across the street in Sheinfeld and saw a large screen TV. Instead of putting up curtains or controlling yourself to not look in someone else's window, they went a different route. They also chose not to use the violent method. They went to a representative in Sheinfeld and told him about the problem. They all went to the guy and politely asked him to move his tv and adjust it so it is not visible from the window.
On the one hand it is very nice that they found a peaceful solution.
On the other hand, they are simply finding news ways to control the area to fit their desires. Instead of putting up curtains, they went into someone else's house and convinced him to alter his behavior for them.
So instead of knocking them down and telling them to live peacefully with others and do what they want in their own homes, they are being empowered and legitimized.
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