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Jan 23, 2008

Haredim appropriate school building in RBS

I just got word, both locally and then someone emailed me about it, about the latest attack in RBS. Tuvia Stern is old news. I would guess the MKs I emailed did not read my letter, and even if they did they have not yet made any statements on the issue, nor have they reigned in their local BS/RBS representatives and have not told them to stop supporting the radicals.

The latest attack comes in the form of power. One of the local representatives of Degel Ha'Torah has, under orders and pressure from Rabbi Perlstein, decided to make a move. Remember the article I posted a few days ago about a local RBS school, Ko Tomar, coming under sudden criticism for their curriculum? Well, now the fight has escalated.

The Degel rep in charge of the Haredi education system in the BS municipality, has approved the transfer of a building to be used by Mrs. Perlstein's high school/seminary. Very nice? Nothing wrong with that? Doing his job helping the local organizations get school buildings?

Think again!

He has taken a school building that was slated and previously promised and planned for Ko Tomar and he has approved giving it instead to Mrs. Perlstein's school.

Ko Tomar is a school that has been around far longer than Mrs. Perlstein's school, they have many more students, and they have been promised a building. Now the radicals (different radicals than those involved in the beatings) win again. They pressure the local rep and are given control of a building slated for a different school.

This rep happens to be a yes-man for Rabbi Perlstein. All of his appointments were pushed by Rabbi perlstein. When the local Bais Yaakov first started a Vaad Horim (parents committee), he was put on it as Rabbi perlstein's representative. At the time he did not even have a daughter in the school (he now does - she was not yet even born back then). Rabbi Perlstein sent him as his man to be the Degel rep and every other issue that comes up in the neighborhood, Rabbi Perlstein sends him as the rep.

Give the Perlsteins a school building. I have no problem with that. But do not do so by taking it away from others.

26 comments:

  1. Now that Rav Perlstein has "arranged" the transfer of a building from Ko Tomar to his school perhaps he will try to switch the Lema'an Achai land on Dolev to his tzedaka organization as well.

    Scary to think isn't it?

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  2. all of this is just 'talk' - it is an election year - remember? the guys in power "promise" all sorts of things - and re neg later...the girls scool and boys school were told they were going to be in so many locations before the year started. Even if this is true- who knows if it will still be true next week - or even tomorrow....I wouldn't get too excited. IF the P's really had that much power they would have done this long ago....

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  3. wasn't Mrs. P given a plot no Luz a long time ago for her school? What happened to that plot? Does she just not want to spend the money to build? am I wrong about that plot?

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  4. Does the person who you are talking about have the initials MM?

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  6. IHNSHO, anyone who supports the RBS Fund is supporting this type of behavior. While some may reply that the RBS Fund does good work and one should ignore it, there is also "corporate responsibility".

    We don't buy Tnuva (unless there's no choice) because the mancal said that settlers were a "malignant cancer in the heart of the country.". As a consumer, I will punish him. Same thing with the RBS Fund.

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  7. i'm not sure if your info is completely correct. first of all the original plan for that building was to be split between Rebettzin Pelrlstein and co tomar. it could be you (or your INSIDE information) heard that info in two stages and thought that one was exclusive of the other.
    also are you sure about the number of students being higher in co tomar?
    as far as the previous poster who posted about RP not wanting to pay to build, he obvously has no clue what he is talking about. co tomar has caravans on Nachal Arugot and perlstein has a small building that was built for Ganim. I assume that much money was put in by co tomar and perlstein to make up their temporary location.
    anyways it was intendd just for that--temporary.
    and besides there is no reason for either school to foot the bill of building their own building. they are both registered with the misrad hachinich which together with the city build buildings for such institutions.

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  8. Rafi, it is dangerous to blog on the basis of hearsay. I note that a few years ago the Iriyah took some classrooms away from Beis Sholom and gave them to Avi Ezri - why did they do this? Senior members of Beis Sholom's vaad told me that it is called 'divide and conquer'. Throughout RBS A and B, the Iriyah promises to one haredi group and then grants to another to try and cause strife between the Gimmel voters (and beyond).
    It is very unlikely that MM (or Rav P) could have pulled this off on his own even if he would have really wanted to - likud and mafdal run the Iriyah.

    As for your posters who link this to the RBS Fund, they are frankly short-sighted. It is really Ikveseh Demeshicha when people try and use Tzeddakah Funds as part of their turf war [I know it happens throughout Israel - but now amongst anglos too]. The RBS Fund has my vote every time - not because of the type of kippot of the people who control it, but because it is run and controlled by volunteers only (100% tzeddakah every time).

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  9. can't we all just get along?January 24, 2008 2:27 PM

    Anon,
    You said:"The RBS Fund has my vote every time - not because of the type of kippot of the people who control it, but because it is run and controlled by volunteers only (100% tzeddakah every time)".

    While I think that Kupa does good work as well I have problem with the 100% Tzedaka idea. They have offices, they have secretaries, they print receipts and (lots) of posters. All of this costs money.

    I know that you will answer that these things are "sponsored". I'm certain that the other organizations who don't say 100% Tzedaka could claim the same. I'm certain that they have donors who sponsor posters, workers, etc. They are just more honest and don't claim 100% Tzedaka. Any penny spent on helping an organization survive is tzedaka. Does that mean that we shouldn't donate to Yeshiva X because they have tables and chairs? Perhaps these items aren't 100% learning.

    I don't understand what you mean by "RBS Fund has my vote"? Is this to the exclusion of Lema'an Achai and Hakshiva (which has a staff) and Yad Tomech and Ezrat Achim? All of these organizations do amazing work and have staff (professionals who are there to care and help).

    Organizations that do great work and make RBSA a better place all deserve our support.

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  10. I have been looking for more details of the deal but have not yet found any, just some side information that might or might not be connected. When I find out more I will let you know, one way or the other...

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  11. So if it isn't appropriate for them to use violence, and it isn't appropriate for them to use the power of the ballot box, how should they advance their interests?

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  12. IHNSHO, anyone who supports the RBS Fund is supporting this type of behavior. While some may reply that the RBS Fund does good work and one should ignore it, there is also "corporate responsibility".


    What has the Kapa shel Tzedaka have anything to do with RP. Can anyone find any material that links them. I havn't seen any indication that it's his kupah. He's not on the board. His name doesn't appear on any literature. They don't ask him the shailos. So his gives his money to them, so what, so do another thousand people.

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  13. so if you still haven't gotten any verification for this silly post, maybe you should stand up to journalistic responsibility and take it down.
    if it is not true it comes down to straight old Mottzi Shaim Ra (i guess as opposed to only loshon horah if it is true) and bizuy talmid chochom (reegardless what you feel of his haskafohs and hanhaga his status as a talmid chochom would be pretty difficult to refute)
    just take a look at othe blogs (HM) who took over where you left off and see the comments there and maybe you will realize how much hate and stuff has come out of your innocent blog which you still haven't been able to verify

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  14. you misunderstood - confirmation I have. details are what I am looking for. Details of how it happened and what Ko Tomar is getting instead, if anything...

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  15. Shlomo,

    In all due respect you are incorrect. I don't how long that you have lived here but I am from the longer residing RBSers.

    A little history...before Kupa there was an organization named Yad B (or L)Rama.

    Rav Perlstein later made Yad into Kupa RBSA and Lema'an Achai was started by someone else... David Morris, a dati leumi.

    So in fact RP was instrumental in starting Kupa and is still one of the poskim. The Kupa refers to him as Mora D'asra and he has a close kesher.

    I have also volunteered for them in various capacities.It is quite clear to me that Rav Perlstein is closely involved.

    I must also say to those who detract from Rav Perlstein and the Kupa...what's your problem?

    Baruch HaShem we have people like Rav Perlstein and the Kupa to help guard authentic Torah and Halacha here in RBS.

    It is a shame that there are people who wish to tramp on the ideals of our gedolim in learning, kashrus, tznius, etc.

    Kol HaKavod to Rav Perlstein and Kupa for defending the honor of HaShem and His Torah.

    If those people can't respect the sensitivities of Bnei Torah let them move elsewhere.

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  16. I was personally involved with the kupa in it's original format (called Yad Rama) and for many years as it is now. RP was involved in developing the kupa at the time of its change, and has been involved and encouraging all the way. But I don't believe there's any way it could be considered under his juristiction any more the numerous other people involved. If the Kapa calls him 'mara deasra', it's irrelevant. It a term of respect that's widely used. I also agree with Shlomo that you will never find his name connected with the Kupa.
    Rafi, your neighbour RL is in charge. Why don't you check with him?

    By the way, not giving to the kupa because you don't like RP (or if you're inclined to be honest, because you hate him), is taking politics to new disgusting depths. He gets nothing from it. Nothing at all! Only the poor might suffer. (Ah, all for a good cause.)

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  17. I am not really sure how the kupa got involved in this.... The original discussion had nothing to do with the kupa.
    If somebody does not like RP and because of that will not give the kupa money, that is his decision and he really should be informed of how much RP is or is not involved, in order to make that decision.

    However, that really has nothing to do with the kupa suffering because of RP's other involvements...
    Again, the kupa was not part of the discussion and I am not taking any stand on the kupa. I give the kupa money and I give Lmaan Achai money. I do some volunteer work for Lmaan Achai and my wife has volunuteered for the kupa and for lmaan achai in various ways and my kids have volunteered for the kupa as well..

    SO I have nothing to comment or info to look for about the kupa. The kupa has nothing (that I know of) to do with the discussion I raised.

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  18. Is this "RP" the same one who created the incident at the performance in the Ayalon Park last summer?

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  19. "If the Kapa calls him 'mara deasra', it's irrelevant. It a term of respect that's widely used."

    I think that anything is relevant if a donor feels it's relevant.

    I'm not also impressed with their door-to-door tactics. I know that on one occasion they coerced a woman into giving them their money for other kupot and cause a serious blow to shalom bayit... but i digress.

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  20. anonymous about RP - yes.

    next anonymous - every donor has a right to choose what organization to give his money and where not to give his money. If the fact that one organization calls RP "mora d'asra", whether as a sign of respect or whether it is a sign of authority, disturbs a donor, it is his prerogative to not give or to give as he sees fit.
    About the "door to door policy" - I doubt they train the collecters to collect the door in that fashion. I would be willing to bet that the specific volunteer used that method on his own. As far as I know, most of the door to door collections are done by building/area. So most of the time the person knocking on your door is going to be someone you know as a neighbor, and only rarely will it be someone from a different area whom you might not know (I might be wrong, but that is what I understand)... that kind of method is rarely going to be used when it is a neighbor and more likely when it is a stranger (I think).. so, again, that incident was probably the exception.

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  21. can't we all just get along?January 29, 2008 12:05 PM

    Shifra,

    The problem with their dorr-to door training is what they are instructed about other organizations.

    It was stated on another thread of this blog that Kupa reps tell donors that Lema'an Achai doesn't have Da'as Torah, doesn't help Charedim and isn't 100% tzedaka.

    While I agree with you about the perogative of the donor what would you say when there is false information being given? Who knows how many donors haven't given to Lema'an Achai because of lies. Lema'an Achai

    An organization like Kupa that claims to have rabbonim should be very careful about what is said regarding others.

    Where is the Kavod HaTorah for the poskim of Lema'an Achai?

    This behavior is a slap in the face of Lema'an Achai and its Rabbonim.

    No good work of Kupa can justify maligning another group just to garner financial support.

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  22. Rafi,

    Does "can'ts" post have anything to do with amazing drasha Rav Solevechik gave this past Shabbos?

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  23. can't - the question is if when the people representing the kupa said that abotu lmaan achai, were they saying it according to instructions from the kupa or was it on their own initiative. There is a difference, but even if it was on their own, the kupa should be telling them not to talk about lmaan achai at all and if they do it should not be in that way.

    anonymous - I have no idea. I do not know what Rav Soloveitchik said, as I did not hear his speech. (someone sent me an email with a very brief recap so I have a very general idea).

    Would you, or somebody else, mind writing here what Rav Soloveitchik said?

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  24. Rafi,

    I didn't hear the drasha but I did receive the following email from someone who was there. Perhaps you should speak to someone who was there (or Rav Solevechik himself) for a clearer picture.

    "As I am sure many of those who were present in the shul were this
    morning, I was moved by Rav Soloveichik's description of those who
    defame L'Maan Achai and himself. I was also disturbed that those who have slandered the Rav force him into a position whereby he must defend himself publicly. I would like to suggest that at the very least we can all do our part to stand up for the Rav and explain to
    all who will listen that L'Maan Achai is a strictly Observant
    organization which stringently follows halacha as expounded by the
    Rav. And the Rav's credentials speak for themselves.

    As the Rav has cited his illustrious ancestor, the Netziv, the sinat
    chinam which led to the destruction of the Temple refers specifically
    to the unwillngness of one Orthodox hashkafa to accept another. And some have cited the infighting among different Orthodox groups during
    the period before the Shoah. May we prevent this form of sinat chinam
    from prevailing in our community."

    I add to your point Rafi...

    In regard to the claim that these things about Lema'an Achai don't come from the Kupa heads...I take issue. I was at the Melave Malka last year and heard how Da'as Torah is something that makes Kupa different from "other" organizations in RBSA. These words came from Rav Eidensohn himself. I have also heard all over the street from Kupa people how Lema'an Achai doesn't follow/respect/have Da'as Torah.

    How does this make people like Rav Solevechik and Rav Leventhal and David Morris feel?

    More important like "can't" suggests..how has this damaged Lema'an Achai and affected the families that are trying to help? Most religious Jews would pick an organization with Da'as Torah over one that doesn't.

    Kol HaKavod to Rav Solevechik for standing up for the Honor of the Torah and Lema'an Achai.

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  25. I received the same email... If anybody reading this was present at the drasha and would not mind writing up a recap (even if you want to send it to me by email and I will post it), I would appreciate it..

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