May 1, 2012
Does Mentioning the Israeli Flag Turn You Into A Zionist?
The article left out [at least] one flag from their list. The Israeli flag. The Israeli flag did not even merit a mention in the list, let alone an explanation. (source: Ynet)
Would including the Israeli flag in the article have turned them into Zionists? Not including it is just a distortion of reality. Like it or not, we all live in Israel, the paper is an Israeli newspaper, we benefit from the State in various ways, the State exists. You do not have to be a Zionist to admit that the State, and its symbols, exists, and discussing the symbols of the State does not make one into a Zionist.
As well, even without being a Zionist, does the haredi community suddenly not admit that it lives in Israel? Is Israel such a persona non grata in the haredi community that it cannot even be mentioned?
It is one thing to not support, to be neutral, as the haredi community generally describes its relationship with the State (besides for the small groups of anti-Zionists), and it is another thing to stick your head in the sand and deny reality.
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You're really digging now (talk about an agenda!). Bakehila is not my favorite paper and I don't have to defend it, but it is understandable that a piece featuring 'Flags around the world' refers to FOREIGN flags - not the flag of the country you live in (duh!)
ReplyDeleteBTW - starting off a critique with 'Reports have it that...' is a wonderful example of journalistic sloppiness (not to mention moral irresponsibility).
All the best,
YS
Yair why must you always deny the truth? Flags of the world includes the flag of Israel (unless you have some explanation that the "Zionist Entity" is not really on Earth...)
DeleteAlso the way he started off is not sloppy in a journalistic sense. He is reporting what the news is. In fact he does give a source for it (Ynet.)
Next time you criticize someone, make sure your glasses work so you can see the mistakes you claim Rafi makes are actually non-existent.
it is easy to forget - this is a blog and not a newspaper. I do not profess to adhere to any journalistic standards, I have no obligation to, and no moral need to. This is a blog. journalistic standards are not relevant. i have not applied for a license as a journalist and am not bound by their professional codes. A blog is just the bloggers outlet for his thoughts on whatever strikes his fancy. Thats it. Though I am not sure why you call it "moral irresponsibility" - what is morally wrong with mentioning that something was reported?
DeleteRegarding this specifically, I wrote "reports have it" because I did not see the article myself. I saw the ynet article, which i referenced. I also saw a mention in Bechadrei a couple days ago, but I couldnt find it now so I didnt reference it.
Rafi,
DeleteI admit that I missed the reference to Ynet and I stand corrected on that point.
But why the constant Chareidi-bashing?
Our communities each have great strengths and - yes - weaknesses. When I see Jews who live a different lifestyle than myself, I always try to focus on their strengths. I could easily start a blog and post cynical swipes at others, as you have. I could sing to the choir to get my traffic up. But is that going to make things better? Is that going to increase Ahavas Yisrael?
This story makes it clear once again that you have an obvious agenda and will go out of your way to interpret the facts to fill that agenda. You have a lot of friends in the Israeli media, and you will never be short of good, juicy stories as long as you are reading and repeating their posts (they LOVE American bloggers like you!). But I suggest you think about whether or not that's what you're all about.
Sincerely,
YS
point taken. just to clarify,, though, so you should, whatever my personal thoughts, beliefs, comments are on any given issue (and you can find plenty throughout this blog where I comment positively about the haredi community), my daily life is far more involved in the haredi community than in the dati leumi. that goes for most of the shuls I daven in, the schools my kids go to and more. so if your perspective is more of that of an outsider looking in, mine is more introspective.
DeleteI hear what you are saying and that may be the correct answer. Why doesnt Rafi just contact the writer of the post about Flags around the world?
DeleteYair, you are making an inaccurate and misleading statement.
DeleteAs someone who reads LIFE IN ISRAEL frequently, I have never found Rafi to be anti-ANYONE. His blog is Pro-Israel and allows the readers to make conclusions and decisions of their own. I would have to disagree with your findings.
How come anything that disagrees with the Haredi point of view is 'Haredi-bashing'????
DeleteIts not like the Haredi leadership does not lash out against the Dati Leumi or secular. Pick ONE - either refrain from criticizing other groups and we will not write anything critical of haredim OR allow people to publish their criticisms, which you are free to disagree with. But pick ONE and be consistent. Not everything you disagree with is "haredi bashing."
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This reminds me of the Israeli haredi approach towards living in neighborhoods. If someone from Meretz tries to keep a kollel out of a secular neighborhood, the haredi press screams "Not since the 1930s has there been such anti-Jewish activity" but IF a girl's elementary school exists in a Haredi neighborhood, there are complaints about invading OUR neighborhood. The Orot school was NOT the first example of haredi rallies in Beit Shemesh outside of a school in the presence of Jewish children.
My demand --- PICK ONE !!!
Either haredim can live whereever they want and you cannot stop others from living their own lifestyles in "your neighbrohood"
OR
everyone lives separately.
This reminds me of the Israeli haredi approach
Deletesomeone once defended that approach to me. when chareidim refuse entry to non-chareidim (like in beitar) it is because they don't want their kids exposed to what they consider to be non-Torah values and lifestyles. when non-Chareidim refuse entry to the frum, it is simply out of hatred.
(i find the above ridiculous, but that was his defense).
Reminds me of when I was a regular reader of HaModia, which has, or had, a weekly "This Day in Jewish History" column. During the week of Yom HaAtzmaut, they listed the births or yahrtzeits of several rabbis from the middle ages, but no mention whatsoever of the birth of the State of Israel. I found that kind of annoying - it's one thing to not say hallel, or to question the legitimacy of the State of Israel as a Jewish State. But ignoring it, as if it never happened, or as if it has had no impact on Jewish history? That's hard for me to understand except as simply a nasty and negative bit of davka thinking - not necessarily on the part of HaModia, but on the part of the broad community of readers that they are obviously concerned not to offend.
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me of the old Monty Python skit in which infamous terrorists and dictators competed in a game show. Comes Yassir Arafat's turn and a picture of Israel appears on the screen. The hosts asks "Mr. Arafat, for 100 points do you recognize that country?"
ReplyDeleteAnd Arafat stutters "I... can't... recognize... that country!"
Similar situation in Mishpacha Junior. They had an extensive article on the Nobel prize, it's origins and some famous laureates.
ReplyDeleteTwo people were obviously missing...R' Shai Agnon and Professor Aumen. The 2 religious (and Zionists), kippa (sruga) wearing laureates.
.
I guess Charedim shouldn't use the 50 NIS bill either
When was that Mishpacha Junior published? Are you talking about an Israel publication? Hamodia America had a small paragraph mentioning Yom Hazichkaron...
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteRafi,
ReplyDeleteI wrote the 'anonmyous' comment above about the haredim cannot cry 'haredi bash' every 10 minutes. Agree or disagree, I think that is a reasonable comment.
But Mark's comment is plain NASTY. Mark's the nasty one.
Please remove Mark's comment - it has no place here.
is this really so strange? the same papers won't publish a picture of a woman and will even photoshop them out. there are papers that won't mention a woman's name. if there is some position taken by rabbanim that they consider outside of acceptable they won't say the name. there are entire subject (like rape or pediophilia) that will never be mentioned. not to mention that in their education system (or at least some of them) there are entire schools of thought left out.
ReplyDeletei don't know the particular politics of the paper involved but this type of policy seems entirely consistent with what they do in other subjects.
Right, because, if you don't post pics of women, then they must not exist. Same goes for the Zionist entity. While I agree wholeheartedly with your point Rafi, I'm surprised that you expect some kind of intellectual consistency and honesty from a community that prides itself on discarding these traits and demeaning them as "modernish".
ReplyDelete