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Jun 10, 2012
80 year Old Rosh Yeshivas and Chassidishe Rebbes will have to Qualify for Officiating At Weddings
On Thursday the Rabbanut changed the criteria regarding who is allowed to conduct weddings in Israel. What seems to be a lightening of the restrictions for some will make it more difficult for others.
According to Bechadrei and Srugim (each from its own perspective), the Rabbanut has been working with the rabbonim of Tzohar to change the rules of what it takes to qualify to be certified for officiating at weddings. The new rules will require a rav to have semicha from the Rabbanut, be tested in the halachos of marriage by a senior rav of the Rabbanut along with by another rav from a list of 10 rabbonim that will be approved, an ishur from 3 city rabbis that the applicant did indeed serve as a rav for a community of at least 30 families, and an ishur from a city rabbi that he assisted on at least 10 weddings and served as rav of a community for at least 2 years.
That is for a rav. A rosh yeshiva or head of an educational institution has different criteria. They would have to meet the following conditions: their institution must be approved by the Ministry of Defense or the Ministry of Education, along with having letters from rabbonim and ishurim of level of seniority.
An admor that wants to qualify as a certified wedding officiator needs to qualify under the following criteria: ishur from 3 city rabbis that he is the admor for a chassidus of at least 50 families, that he learned in a yeshiva for at least 10 years over the age of 18, served as admor for at least 5 years and ishur from a city rav that he assisted on at least 10 weddings.
For community rabbis this makes life easier. For haredi rosh yeshivas and chassidic admorim, who commonly officiate the weddings in the haredi communities, the new criteria makes it harder. Until now they have had almost no limitations on their abilities to qualify, and now they will have to meet all the above requirements.
This has the support of chief rabbis Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar.
I'd say that it is good to have equal sets of guidelines and criteria. When the system is fairly standardized, the level and quality is known. If these changes were goign to be made, I don't see a problem with it in theory.
The only thing I think should be added t it is that current rabbis and rosh yeshivas who have been conducting weddings should be grandfathered in and not be forced to go through the certification process that will likely be considered demeaning or degrading for many of them.
Why should a senior rosh yeshiva or admor have to go through the process of certification when he has been conducting weddings for 30 years for hundreds of young men over the years? That can be very demeaning - he would have to "assist" a different rabbi on a bunch of weddings, he would have to go around asking for ishurim for different things, it is not respectful.
The criteria should be applied, I think, to new rabbis and rosh yeshivas, while the older ones with experience should be grandfathered in.
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According to Bechadrei and Srugim (each from its own perspective), the Rabbanut has been working with the rabbonim of Tzohar to change the rules of what it takes to qualify to be certified for officiating at weddings. The new rules will require a rav to have semicha from the Rabbanut, be tested in the halachos of marriage by a senior rav of the Rabbanut along with by another rav from a list of 10 rabbonim that will be approved, an ishur from 3 city rabbis that the applicant did indeed serve as a rav for a community of at least 30 families, and an ishur from a city rabbi that he assisted on at least 10 weddings and served as rav of a community for at least 2 years.
That is for a rav. A rosh yeshiva or head of an educational institution has different criteria. They would have to meet the following conditions: their institution must be approved by the Ministry of Defense or the Ministry of Education, along with having letters from rabbonim and ishurim of level of seniority.
An admor that wants to qualify as a certified wedding officiator needs to qualify under the following criteria: ishur from 3 city rabbis that he is the admor for a chassidus of at least 50 families, that he learned in a yeshiva for at least 10 years over the age of 18, served as admor for at least 5 years and ishur from a city rav that he assisted on at least 10 weddings.
For community rabbis this makes life easier. For haredi rosh yeshivas and chassidic admorim, who commonly officiate the weddings in the haredi communities, the new criteria makes it harder. Until now they have had almost no limitations on their abilities to qualify, and now they will have to meet all the above requirements.
This has the support of chief rabbis Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar.
I'd say that it is good to have equal sets of guidelines and criteria. When the system is fairly standardized, the level and quality is known. If these changes were goign to be made, I don't see a problem with it in theory.
The only thing I think should be added t it is that current rabbis and rosh yeshivas who have been conducting weddings should be grandfathered in and not be forced to go through the certification process that will likely be considered demeaning or degrading for many of them.
Why should a senior rosh yeshiva or admor have to go through the process of certification when he has been conducting weddings for 30 years for hundreds of young men over the years? That can be very demeaning - he would have to "assist" a different rabbi on a bunch of weddings, he would have to go around asking for ishurim for different things, it is not respectful.
The criteria should be applied, I think, to new rabbis and rosh yeshivas, while the older ones with experience should be grandfathered in.
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Labels:
Admor,
Rabbanut,
Rosh Yeshivas,
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The rules as you describe them require grandfathering in, else how can anyone find someone to sign something saying that they are qualified.
ReplyDeleteSilly comment if you ask me.
good point. Neither of the articles mention grandfathering, just that it will harm the rosh yeshivas. I assumed everyone would need to go through the process except for the initial list of rabbis who can give the approval. and for many rabbis it will be easy to get the approval, as they will get letters saying they have been rabbi for x years and have conducted x number of weddings in the past. No problem. Just demeaning.
ReplyDeleteA little on a tangent, I would point out that many, many rabbanim start out without having learning the relevant halachot very well; or even at all. This was certainly true when I was still learning in yeshiva in the 80s. Back then, Dayan Ezra Batzri offered a short curriculum and test for interested parties. It wasn't especially difficult, but it did help ensure that the young rav had the requisite basic knowledge in the laws of ishut, kiddushin, and testimony. This was an innovation for much of the yeshivah community, as many fellows learning yoreh deah had barely ever looked inside Even HaEzer or Hoshen Mishpat.
ReplyDelete"good point. Neither of the articles mention grandfathering, "
ReplyDeleteWhy would they? Either a Rabbi is currently allowed to do marriages in Israel or they are not. If the law doesn't say anything about revoking the license to do those marriages, then you can assume that anyone who is currently allowed will be allowed after the change in law as well.
so who is grandfathered in? the guy opening a yeshiva today had to register with the new rules, but the guy who opened a yeshiva on Wednesday is grandfathered in? perhaps.
ReplyDeleteEvery time they try to solve one problem, in this case an organization doing weddings outside the system or reform rabbis wanting to do weddings, they cause new ones. Demeaning? The problem is not demeaning, it's simply not reasonable to expect major admorim, who often are leading chassiduses that want to limit their involvement in the State, to get some type of State certification to do weddings.
ReplyDeleteI see this as a step towards separation of shul and State, as it's going to push some of the more extreme anti-State groups to just ignore the issue.
That indeed will be the problem, that to officiate at weddings one will need the ishur from the state. Not only old timer rabbopnim but even new chareidi rabbonim who don't recognise the state are not going to want to get a "hechsher" from the rabbanut in order to leagally c onduct a wedding. All I can say to that, is hard luck. That is the way it is. Regarding the old timers and experienced rabbonim, they should be exempt, but new ones chareidi tzohar or army or other all will have to get the same licence. That is great news.
ReplyDelete"so who is grandfathered in? the guy opening a yeshiva today had to register with the new rules, but the guy who opened a yeshiva on Wednesday is grandfathered in? perhaps."
ReplyDeleteI believe that is normally how it works. But generally they give a date, like anyone who registers after 1 Tishrei 5780 or whatever.