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May 11, 2014
Chilul shabbos to oppose the evil government
According to a report in Bakehilla, a haredi newspaper, the Gaavad of the Eida, Rav Tuvia Weiss, has said, in reference to the new draft law, that attempts to draft yeshiva bochurim must be repelled at all costs, and while they should prepare for a battle and any eventuality, including imprisonment, they should never consider the IDF as an option.
Rav Weiss then said that in Shulchan Aruch it is clear that the Shabbos can be desecrated in order to save a hostage, and it does not matter if the hostage-taker is a criminal or an evil person. Rav Weiss said, for sure in our situation, when the evil government wishes to damage souls and force yeshiva bochurim to be drafted, one must act in any way possible, including by desecration of the Shabbos.
source: YWN
This perhaps explains why it is ok to tear down political signs of non-haredi politicians on Shabbos, or tear down flags from private property and from cars - because they represent and are part of the evil government. So, anything can be done to repel them. Even chilul shabbos, even theft or destruction of private property.
The remaining questions in my mind are:
1. why so many non-Eida people follow the Eida on this position? since when did the average "Haredi Litvak" become such an extremist on the position of the State of Israel?
2. Haredim in the government, whether local municipal government or national government, should be equivalent to the non-haredim in government. Like it or not, those haredim in government are part of the evil government, and they promote the governments decisions, are often part of them (not right now as part of the opposition, but most of the time they have been part of the coalition).. to some people, like the Eida or Neturei Karta, that may loosely be the case (they talk against haredim in government, but in practice they do unofficially work together and talk/cooperate). To the people who aren't normally part of the Eida community but seem to follow the Eida on these more extreme issues, why do they differentiate between the haredi and non-haredi members of the evil government? They should be considered just as evil as the rest of the government.
Rav Weiss then said that in Shulchan Aruch it is clear that the Shabbos can be desecrated in order to save a hostage, and it does not matter if the hostage-taker is a criminal or an evil person. Rav Weiss said, for sure in our situation, when the evil government wishes to damage souls and force yeshiva bochurim to be drafted, one must act in any way possible, including by desecration of the Shabbos.
source: YWN
This perhaps explains why it is ok to tear down political signs of non-haredi politicians on Shabbos, or tear down flags from private property and from cars - because they represent and are part of the evil government. So, anything can be done to repel them. Even chilul shabbos, even theft or destruction of private property.
The remaining questions in my mind are:
1. why so many non-Eida people follow the Eida on this position? since when did the average "Haredi Litvak" become such an extremist on the position of the State of Israel?
2. Haredim in the government, whether local municipal government or national government, should be equivalent to the non-haredim in government. Like it or not, those haredim in government are part of the evil government, and they promote the governments decisions, are often part of them (not right now as part of the opposition, but most of the time they have been part of the coalition).. to some people, like the Eida or Neturei Karta, that may loosely be the case (they talk against haredim in government, but in practice they do unofficially work together and talk/cooperate). To the people who aren't normally part of the Eida community but seem to follow the Eida on these more extreme issues, why do they differentiate between the haredi and non-haredi members of the evil government? They should be considered just as evil as the rest of the government.
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Where do you get the idea that non-Eida people will be following this?
ReplyDeletenon-eida people already follow it. they tear down israeli flags (I personally know of incidents and the perps were not eida people but kids and adults from the regular haredi litvak community. during the last elections, people were witnessed tearing down signs on shabbos along with tearing down private signs from private property.)
DeleteEven according to this psak, there is no justification for tearing down flags. That would be like saying you could put up ads for a hospital on Shabbos just in case anyone gets sick and doesn't know where the hospital is.
Deletewell, with the flag representative of that evil, it must be taken down, even if it is privately owned. add to that the fact that they consider it avoda zara, or machshirei avoda zara.
DeleteWhich has nothing to do with Rav Weiss's psak.
DeleteB'Kitzur, the people who torn down flags and election signs, certainly if they did it on Shabbos, are reshaim. I don't think a retroactive psak can justify their actions, even if it was relevant, which it isn't.
i.e. Rav Weiss was not saying anything new. He is explaining some behavior we have seen for a while but claimed to not udnerstand how they can act that way. now Rav Weiss has provided the explanation.
ReplyDeleteSo is that the posek learning out the phenomenon, or the people being bnei neviim?
Deleteprobably neither, but just the expression of the attiude that has remained unexpressed until now (or expressed but ignored by the media)
DeleteTo refer back to a post that appeared a few days ago, this is why although we might want a "Torah" state in theory, in practice, there is good reason to fear such a state. Once you believe that you are implementing God's will, and in a "Torah state" ruled by "Da'as Torah", every piece of legislation, and every government activity would be considered an expression of "God's will," the ability to compromise is reduced to zero.
ReplyDeleteImagine a state ruled by Rav Weiss. If this is how he instructs people to act when they are a small minority, how would he instruct a government to act towards other people acting in a way that he believed was contrary to his "Daas Torah"? Never mind the non-Orthodox - what about the other factions of Orthodox? And not just Rav Weiss, but any rabbi or group of rabbis that found themselves in control of a "Torah" state.
Presumably, with a divinely appointed "Mashiach," the problem of authority would not exist, and a Torah state could have legitimacy. Until such time, can anyone really think that a "Torah" state would find a way to govern with any degree of freedom or tolerance for dissent? Or to maintain a government with any semblence of stability? There's a good reason the very intelligent founders of the United States, with hundreds of bloody years of European religious wars to look back on, chose to embed the separation of religion from the state in the Constitution.
B"H - http://thetorahrevolution.blogspot.co.il/2014/05/burning-israeli-flags-by-jews-is.html
ReplyDeleteI suppose this would justify the building discovered recently going on in Gimmel - on Shabbos!!!! People on Yarkon have heard the noise on Shabbos. So the building on Shabbos could be justified in that it is building up the Torah community, and keeping the anti-Torah (i.e not Charedi) elements out of that area.
ReplyDeleteSuch disgusting hypocrisy. These people are not even Torah observant in any way, and nothing can justify it
I think Rav Weiss may have been confused. He probably meant to quote this halacha in the Rambam, that serving in the army is what is doche Shabbos:
ReplyDeleteרמב"ם הל' שבת פ"ב הכ"ג
ובכל מקום אם באו על עסקי נפשות או שערכו מלחמה או שצרו סתם יוצאין עליהן בכלי זיין ומחללין עליהן את השבת, ומצוה על כל ישראל שיכולין לבוא לצאת ולעזור לאחיהם שבמצור ולהצילם מיד הגוים בשבת, ואסור להן להתמהמה למוצאי שבת
lol
Delete