Two things: 1: I am a chareidi in RBS A and agree with you 100%. 2: If you put underlined words in an online article, people will think it is a hyperlink. The convention is to use bold or italics for emphasis online.

fixed. thanks

There was a time when our family would have respected this idea of minimizing women's photos. But discussion on this issue and now this campaign have helped us realize - making distinctions is very, very important. We don't bring in publications with photos that are clearly outside the bounds of modesty, yet we now appreciate publications that apply high standards and can provide good examples of how a professional woman presents herself (or a man for that matter), or how an ad can be attractive and halachically appropriate at the same time.

And regarding censoring for-profit publications so they are "safe" for certain readers - let's think in reverse of what a Gadol B'Yisrael once wrote in a haskama for a Rabbi Teller book - that it's "good for women and children to occupy their time": if there are men who shouldn't be looking at commercial publications that contain photos of women, those men are undoubtedly better off learning Talmud instead.

this is the alternative. https://youtu.be/ft87_HUDh10 the modox ortho feminists rallying calls is that in modern society we are equals in all areas so why not in religious practice to the ortho response is to make them unequal in all areas (I am not defending hadrat nashim just explaining why its necessary)

Women are so sexualized in the world that we must do the opposite:
- very much true IN GENERAL and this is IMO, a reason and natural outcome why the conservatives are getting more conservative. I think it is actually a worldwide phenomenon trend, BUT IMO, it does not justify what 'they' are doing in BS in this case.

we are counted as numbers to the poor advertisers
- so? This is the power in your hands - to contact the advertisers and explicitly tell them - I throw out the magazine and will boycott your store as long as you support these radical magazines.


But at the end of the day, it will come down to demographics.

How about a link to the petition?

Our daughters are taught nothing about these lack of pictures being shown of them in the press. They are not absorbing these messages that you assert they are. They are taught that they are holy and precious and that their inner neshama is their essence. We are taught across the board that the more something is hidden the more holiness and bracha it contains. Our girls are taught self respect, they are each a bat Melech. They would never even have a reference to think of themselves as an object, let alone a sex object.

The lessons we teach our girls are not the conclusions you make from your own perspective. No one is teaching our girls that they are sexual objects that men must be protected from. They don't know from sexualization. They dont conclude that there is something wrong with having women's images excluded, but they KNOW there is something very special about women and special about a woman being modest. We are modest even around each other, our modesty is not in reaction to men. It is a reflection of our inner holiness.

Our lessons do not reflect all these conclusions made from a purely secular perspective.

And please all you naysayers, get off your high horse. You think the opposite is better? I have seen the secular advertising out there. They even turn children into little sexual objects. Look at how children are posed... look at the subtle message in advertising that uses sex to sell everything. So we go to the other extreme in your eyes, but our way hurts no one. Really. It doesn't.

Oh it does, it hurts us because people with a secular perspective use it to see the Haredi way of life in a negative way and build up their hatred of our way of life and give them excuses for more lashon hara about our way of life.

Why do I see so many haredi bashing article after Haredi bashing article on this subject. Why is their no dialogue to understand why this approach is valuable to us. Everyone seems to feel they know better than us and we are made up of a bunch of chauvinistic men from the stone age oppressing women.

Come into our community and see that we take guidance from some of the most learned men on the planet. People who are so dedicated to intellectual pursuit that they spend every minute of their day deepening their knowledge. Their vision is further than yours. They see the outcome from a tiny action. Our women are educated and have as strong an intellectual capacity as yours. We aren't starting riots to get our pictures in advertising circulars. We are also Jews. Stiffnecked and discerning. We aren't asking for advocacy on our behalf from your community. If we feel we need to stand up for ourselves, we will. Our way.

Ask yourselves, do these negative judgements fit into a Torah view. dan l'kaf zechut. Are all the negative attitudes toward us and bashing fall under Torah Prohibitions. It is not helping our community or yours. What is the point. We wont take direction from someone who's world view is based on secular values or heavily tainted by that world view. We dont look for guidance from editorials by journalists, from people who feel they know better than our advisors that are seeped in Torah Learning. It is simply causing a stir, and increasing judgement. Our changes wont come from your negative press about us. It is destructive journalism. It doesn't increase understanding or collaboration with the other communities. It does not make the Haredi want to be like you or bow to your approaches. And it makes others with a desire to judge us feel more justified and righteous in their sinius chinum.

Written by a Bas Yisroel, a Haredi woman living in a Haredi city who has no complaints against our way of life.

Anonymous - there is explicit teaching, which is what you mean by what we intentionally teach our kids. Then there is implicit - what we see all around us, and then absorb. After all, nobody "teaches" immodesty - but still, people are afraid of their kids seeing blatant nudity and vulgarity around them, and absorbing it. Same goes for eradicating women from all spheres of life. It's not being explicitly taught, but if it's insidiously everywhere, it will be absorbed into the individual and collective consciousness. If a Kupat Cholim can't show a normal family with a mother and a sister on the "family" part of their website - this DOES have an impact. It may not be as much of a wallop as blatant nudity - it's more erosive, but definitely still powerful.

I see no reason to delete anything. everything has been respectful so far. nothing wrong with discussion and argument

I note that the word Charedi is not once in this post- hardly the stuff of Charedi bashing.