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Nov 18, 2024
How can any draft law work and make people satisfied?
I personally do not have a solution to the issue of the Haredi draft. I dont see a need to fight over solutions that obviously wont work, but I also see the need for change of the status quo. Israel is in a different place now. What was will not continue to be.
Since the war began, once it became apparent this would be a long war, I felt that the situation will have to change, people wont be so forgiving about tens of thousands of young men being let out of the draft while others have to serve for so long. While I dont have a solution I do believe this is largely a missed opportunity by Haredi leadership to propose a solution. Instead of proposing a solution they chose to dig in their heels and fight against the drafting of Haredi men with no compromises.
Had they proposed a solution that would have drafted a reasonable number of people from the Haredi community (whether it would be those who don't learn in yeshiva full time or to draft into the religious services portion of the army, to do National Service within the Haredi community, or to establish some sort of medical corp adjacent to the army that Haredim would serve in, etc), I think most of Israel would have been ok with that, in some form or another, and the issue would have been put to rest. They dug their heels in and refused to talk about anything, and now even the above suggestion likely wouldnt be enough - now people just want them int he army, after a nearly 14 months of people serving multiple times in Gaza and Lebanon, families collapsing, fathers of ten being killed in battle, people losing jobs and businesses going under..people by now have had enough.
So to me, this is mostly a missed opportunity of the Haredi leadership.
That being said, I do have two questions, one for each side:
1. For those of you who think it is too late, Haredim have to draft - how do you solve this? Draft them and then what - will they go to the army or will they refuse? Are you going to send in police to arrest the rabbis and thousands of yeshiva students, until they agree to go, which they very well might not? How does this get resolved for the good of Israeli society?
2. For those of you who are against drafting the Haredim (because they don't want to be drafted), how do you explain to the rest of the nation collapsing under the burden of this extended war why tens of thousands of young healthy men are not participating and relieving middle aged men from such long stays on the battlefield? How do you sell the difference why some people (most of the country) can be forced to serve but some people shouldn't be forced to serve?
I have seen people argue incessantly online over the past few months about should they or shouldn't they be drafted, but I haven't seen anyone explain how it could work, in either direction... I would like to hear how a forced draft could work, and I would like to hear how a mass exemption could work. The government will do whatever it finds politically expedient to do, without actually doing whatever it thinks to be morally and practically the right thing. If they pass the law to grant the exemptions, it wont suddenly resolve the arguments in society so I would like to hear ideas how this can be resolved in a way that most people would be ok with.
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In answer to your questions:
ReplyDelete1) Yes, arrest all of them, put them in a giant camp in the Negev and wait. Condition release on "You will go from here to the nearest recuitment centre and sign up."
2) You don't See (1)
Here's the problem - for 2 generations, the Chareidi leeadership has been able to snap its fingers and get whatever it demands. They no longer see this as an accommodation but an ikkar emunah. We're Chareidi. We get what we want and we don't have to give anything in return. If, after the Six Day War when their numbers starts to become signficant, the government had started talking with their leadership it might've worked but now their sclerotic old rabbis walk into the room with the starting position of "Give us what we demand and how dare you ask us for anything! That's against the Torah!" There's no negotiating anymore.
I have always believed the real problem is not specifically the draft or shabbos or treatment of women but that the Haredi community has basically been given autonomy to lives its life separately how it wants with a different set of rules and laws. As they get bigger and grow this autonomy is becoming a real problem.
DeleteYes, like Quebec in Canada, the Chareidim are allowed to live by their own rules while the rest of the country pays for it.
DeleteHere's a simpler solution: at this point, just draft any Chareidi boy who, by his current age, should be in the army. Only the 18-19 years olds, for example.
As for the rest, condition receiving any government or health benefit on military service or national service for the girls. Simple.
And then expand it to the entire secular population.
The secular population? Last I checked, they serve, and a few of them get individual exemptions.
DeleteLast I read, a not so small percentage of seculars, especially in Tel Aviv and Haifa, dodge the draft. Either they claim medical issues or conscientous objection but the real reason is "If they don't have to go, why do I?"
DeleteAs I've had this conversation with Chareidi folk, it's impossible to get them to change their minds. They have been "doing this forever from Har Sinai, you can't change us". My question usually boils down to if they want Israel to disappear. The American leadership here takes it's cues from EY, and so you don't have the backing here from the right wing, and they will give money to keep their counterparts in EY going. My solution? Jail? No, that would make things worse. But I do think that if you do not participate in the project known as Israel, you should either be 100% cut off from the benefits. This is hard because while some things like denying a driver's license or ability to purchase a property can be denied, how do you explain to a 5 year old that they can't get medical treatment because their parents are disingenuous people who only cry "anti-Semite" when it's a perceived attack on them? Maybe start deporting people to somewhere? If you take away citizenship it could be very scary for them. And if you don't want to participate (especially when we are under attack) why should you retain your citizenship? IMHO, whatever country you live in, if the government has rules, they need to be followed. Israel is not czarist Russia conscripting to destroy the culture, we need Jews to defend Jews because that's a main reason for Israel to exist. And if you can't defend your own family, or help by national service and helping your brothers in a time of need, by all means, please leave. You can learn in BMG instead of B'nei Brak.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't have to affect children. Anyone 18 or older who hasn't served gets no benefits. Children under that age get benefits they're entitled to but the bare minimum. So they get health coverage and basic medical treatments but the lowest tear and no family assistance cheques for the parents. Oh, they won't have money for food for their child? Go to the army.
Delete