Showing posts with label Haredim Ovdim. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Haredim Ovdim. Show all posts
Sep 10, 2023
this happened in an Orthodox shul!
A weird incident happened recently in the Haredi neighborhood of RBS D.
To introduce this I will say that I had heard RBS D was a super Haredi neighborhood, relatively extreme (with some more extreme elements), and that has been my preconceived impression of RBS D, until I actually went there several times and even more so until more recently as I started to hear about some of the communities out there. Sure enough, there are definitely some more mainstream Haredi communities and some extremists elements, but there are also some (and I dont know how many or how much of a percentage they are) of Haredim who call themselves "Modern Haredim" or "Young Haredim" - these are Haredim who seem to not feel bound by the old Haredi style and are somewhat forging their own paths and styles within the Haredi community.
That being said...
An incident recently happened at a shul in RBS D that extended what would likely have been the normal reach of that shul. They had to have known it would.
Briefly, what happened is that a sefer torah was donated to the shul. When they first used it, I think it was at the hachnasat sefer torah near the end of the ceremony, they allowed a woman, someone seemingly connected to the donation of the Torah (I dont know if she was the donor herself or some sort of representative of the donor), to do the glila of the torah - the rolling and tying it closed.
They claimed to have support of one of the local rabbonim, Rav Elimelech Kornfeld, who is also the rav of the shul in some capacity. I have heard that when the criticism started coming in he denied it he had given permission.
So the reason I have not posted about this until now is because until the other day I had not found the actual video of the incident. I had only seen people reference it. I didnt know what actually happened. It was weird, it was unusual and I didnt know what people were exaggerating or being accurate about or whatnot. But I found the original clip the other day and it was posted by the leadership of the shul it happened in on the X (formerly known as Twitter) platform. Here it is:
זאת בית שמש!❣️ pic.twitter.com/ISdL1xkYf9
— יוסי ריינר | Yossi rainer (@yossi_rainer) August 28, 2023
now, I am totally not familiar with this. To me it seemed strange. After I first heard about I tried to find out what happened and I found bits of commentary about it and it seems that halachically there is actually basis for it with some old sources permitting it. That being said I have never seen this happen (in an Orthodox shul) and I would put money down that until now almost none of you reading this will have ever seen this happen until now. So even knowing it is theoretically possible and maybe was occasionally allowed hundreds of years ago, though I have not heard of records of it actually being a regular thing, it still seems strange. That being said, I am all for change that is acceptable within the halachic parameters.
I should note that Rav Moshe Shternbuch, one of the heads of the Eida Hachareidis and a rosh yeshiva in Bet Shemesh and also rav of a community in RBS D, came out, I guess unsurprisingly, against this incident and criticized them strongly, calling them a community that had roots in the Haredi community (ie they are no longer Haredi).
I don't know exactly what is what but I am think my original impression was way off base and RBS D isnt quite as mainstream or extreme as I thought...
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Labels:
haredim,
Haredim Ovdim,
RBS D,
women
Feb 3, 2020
Quote of the Day
with elections comes attempts to appeal to all sorts of communities and groups that might not feel connected or might even feel disenfranchised, so...
Degrees and University is avoda zara, but I will help you integrate into the work force. I will fight against the Haredi public school system, even if it means you will not vote for me.... sometimes professors come to the Finance Committee a thousand times more stupid than those of us who did not learn core curriculum subjects and did not get degrees.
-- MK Moshe Gafni (UTJ), trying to appeal to "working Haredim" to vote UTJ...
sounds really convincing to me... if you want to work in a minimum wage job, he'll help you get into the work force. without an education, that Gafni does not want you to get, you are unlikely (with exceptions, obviously, for extremely talented people) to move up to better paid positions with more responsibility.
This might be fine for some people, but as a sector the "working haredim" group has generally decided this is not just something they have to do at some point but see this as their way of life and want the education in order to do better in the work force.
Gafni's argument sounds more like trying to push them away than to attract them...
Degrees and University is avoda zara, but I will help you integrate into the work force. I will fight against the Haredi public school system, even if it means you will not vote for me.... sometimes professors come to the Finance Committee a thousand times more stupid than those of us who did not learn core curriculum subjects and did not get degrees.
-- MK Moshe Gafni (UTJ), trying to appeal to "working Haredim" to vote UTJ...
sounds really convincing to me... if you want to work in a minimum wage job, he'll help you get into the work force. without an education, that Gafni does not want you to get, you are unlikely (with exceptions, obviously, for extremely talented people) to move up to better paid positions with more responsibility.
This might be fine for some people, but as a sector the "working haredim" group has generally decided this is not just something they have to do at some point but see this as their way of life and want the education in order to do better in the work force.
Gafni's argument sounds more like trying to push them away than to attract them...
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Labels:
haredim,
Haredim Ovdim,
Moshe Gafni,
qotd
Jan 20, 2015
who owns the Haredim Ovdim, if they even exist?
The "Haredim Ovdim", the people representing a group, unknown how large, of working-class Haredim who feel slighted by the establishment, are being courted by the various Haredi parties.
They have expressed dissatisfaction with UTJ, so they are considered to be courtable.
UTJ is claiming ownership, saying they are no different than any other Haredi. According to UTJ there is not even a classification of a group called Haredim Ovdim - they are just regular good old Haredim, and should not go anywhere.
Deri has met with them in an attempt to get them to support Shas in exchange for assistance in whatever they need.
Eli Yishai has met with them as well looking for their support.
Who will court them next is anybody's guess.
The funny part is UTJ's approach. They act as if they own these people. Both Yaakov Asher and Moshe Gafni have said that there is no such thing as a group called Haredim Ovdim, and they are just regular Haredim under UTJ.
Last I checked, any group of people have the right, ability, to get together and form a group concerned about common interests, and call themselves whatever they want.
Just like there is a social group called "Haredim", and they are not satisfied with just being called "Israelis", and there are "Israelis" and not just "Humans", so these people can decide for themselves that they want to categorize themselves as "Haredim Ovdim". They do not need Gafni's or Asher's approval.
In addition, MK Gafni also said on radio this morning that his job is to worry about and fight for the Torah-learners, not those that go to study academics. He said this while criticizing other parties that are looking to court these UTJ voters, including parties that might not even cross the threshold and just throw away thousands or tens of thousands of votes.
Gafni has said this before, that his job in the Knesset is to fight for the Torah-learners, the yeshiva and kollel students, and not for those who have left the yeshiva.
So, on the one hand he claims some sort of ownership of this group and says they should stick with UTJ and nobody else should court them, while on the other hand, at the same time, he says we won't fight for your needs.
It is astounding to think that in the past, in and through previous election cycles, these people have stuck with Gafni and UTJ for so long. They are told straight out that their needs as a group are not important to the party, but they stick around anyway. And they probably will this time as well.
I am sure there are individuals who leave, despite the group staying. And perhaps over time more and more of the individuals will leave the group and find their representation elsewhere. For now though, it seems almost like battered wife syndrome.
They have expressed dissatisfaction with UTJ, so they are considered to be courtable.
UTJ is claiming ownership, saying they are no different than any other Haredi. According to UTJ there is not even a classification of a group called Haredim Ovdim - they are just regular good old Haredim, and should not go anywhere.
Deri has met with them in an attempt to get them to support Shas in exchange for assistance in whatever they need.
Eli Yishai has met with them as well looking for their support.
Who will court them next is anybody's guess.
The funny part is UTJ's approach. They act as if they own these people. Both Yaakov Asher and Moshe Gafni have said that there is no such thing as a group called Haredim Ovdim, and they are just regular Haredim under UTJ.
Last I checked, any group of people have the right, ability, to get together and form a group concerned about common interests, and call themselves whatever they want.
Just like there is a social group called "Haredim", and they are not satisfied with just being called "Israelis", and there are "Israelis" and not just "Humans", so these people can decide for themselves that they want to categorize themselves as "Haredim Ovdim". They do not need Gafni's or Asher's approval.
In addition, MK Gafni also said on radio this morning that his job is to worry about and fight for the Torah-learners, not those that go to study academics. He said this while criticizing other parties that are looking to court these UTJ voters, including parties that might not even cross the threshold and just throw away thousands or tens of thousands of votes.
Gafni has said this before, that his job in the Knesset is to fight for the Torah-learners, the yeshiva and kollel students, and not for those who have left the yeshiva.
So, on the one hand he claims some sort of ownership of this group and says they should stick with UTJ and nobody else should court them, while on the other hand, at the same time, he says we won't fight for your needs.
It is astounding to think that in the past, in and through previous election cycles, these people have stuck with Gafni and UTJ for so long. They are told straight out that their needs as a group are not important to the party, but they stick around anyway. And they probably will this time as well.
I am sure there are individuals who leave, despite the group staying. And perhaps over time more and more of the individuals will leave the group and find their representation elsewhere. For now though, it seems almost like battered wife syndrome.
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Labels:
haredim,
Haredim Ovdim,
Moshe Gafni,
UTJ
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