Feb 16, 2014
Is Moshe Abutbol a Zionist or not?
Is Moshe Abutbol a Zionist or not?
I don't really care, but he seems to (as do some other people). In my opinion, by the very definition of being a mayor in the State of Israel, or running for mayor, or being involved in politics and the running of the State, one is somewhat a Zionist.
Moshe Abutbol said last night, in his first election rally held with leaders and rabbis of the Shas party, that he does not understand why Eli Cohen says he (Abutbol) is not a Zionist - "I served in the army, and I pay taxes - just because I do not work in Mekorot like Eli Cohen does, that makes me not a Zionist?"
source: Kikar
No, that does not make Moshe Abutbol not a Zionist. What does make him not a Zionist, in case he has forgotten, is what he himself said in 2010 at the end of a riot that he helped stop..
To remind you, what I reported then based on reports in the local newspapers (which can be produced if someone wants to see the originals):
I don't particularly care. I consider him a Zionist at least on some level. But I would like to get straight what he considers himself, since he makes a big deal of it (in both directions)..
I don't really care, but he seems to (as do some other people). In my opinion, by the very definition of being a mayor in the State of Israel, or running for mayor, or being involved in politics and the running of the State, one is somewhat a Zionist.
Moshe Abutbol said last night, in his first election rally held with leaders and rabbis of the Shas party, that he does not understand why Eli Cohen says he (Abutbol) is not a Zionist - "I served in the army, and I pay taxes - just because I do not work in Mekorot like Eli Cohen does, that makes me not a Zionist?"
source: Kikar
No, that does not make Moshe Abutbol not a Zionist. What does make him not a Zionist, in case he has forgotten, is what he himself said in 2010 at the end of a riot that he helped stop..
To remind you, what I reported then based on reports in the local newspapers (which can be produced if someone wants to see the originals):
Abutbol held a press conference in which he explained the agreement achieved.So, are you a Zionist or not? Just a few years ago it was the worst insult you could imagine, now you are claiming you are a Zionist.
While he was talking, some residents (from among the rioters) were nearby making noise trying to disturb. One of them called out "Masht"ap Tziyoni!" (Masht"ap is an acronym for Mishatef Peula - somebody who cooperates and collaborates, so they were accusing him of being a collaborator of the Zionists).
Abutbol later said, "I can forgive them for the [verbal] abuses hurled at me and for not letting me speak. One thing I cannot forgive - that they called me a Zionist!"
I don't particularly care. I consider him a Zionist at least on some level. But I would like to get straight what he considers himself, since he makes a big deal of it (in both directions)..
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Excuse me, *he* makes a big deal out of it? I have yet to hear a quote from Eli Cohen that doesn't include the word Zionist, his oh-so-useful euphemism for "non-chareidi". Stam, I would like to ask Eli Cohen why it's so important that a mayor be Zionist - what on earth does that have to do with local issues? Of course, if you just mean "non-chareidi, because people don't like chareidim", it all makes sense.
ReplyDeleteHe's a politician, he flaps in the wind if that help him. So what, we don't expect more from politicians. This week he's playing to his prime constituency, he's anti-zionist. Whatever. It's when the blatant lies start flowing that it's a problem - that will be next week.
ReplyDeletehe is a zionist in terms of eli cohen's musagim. that is he participates in activities of the medinah, their government,etc.
ReplyDeletewhat insulted him from the kannoim was that they were referring to something else- the deragotory term being someone who sells out their yiddishkeit for the medina and it's laws at the expense of torah.
sort of like the african- americans that can be up in arms when somebody calls them the n word but have no problem when they are called that by their friends on the court (it's the exact opposite than this case but you get my idea)
I hate it when the non Zionists keep calling Eli Cohen, the chiloni candiate, whereas he is in fact the official candiate of a religious party (HaBayit haYehudi), has the backing of most of the Zionist Rabbis, and considers himself masorati. That is definitely ot chiloni, just because he does not wear a kippa does not make him chiloni.
ReplyDeleteIt's not proper to put a clock in the 'mizrach' of a shul. Bad for praying and bad for when someone is speaking.
ReplyDeleteAre we sure the Abutbol comment wasn't tongue in cheek, by way of dismissing them? What tone or inflection did he use when he said it?
ReplyDeleteMeir S, he doesn't keep shabbos, which is the usual definition. He said he would not break shabbos in public if elected but that doesn't make him a shomer shabbos. I'm not saying it would make him a better or worse mayor but it's not inaccurate to call him chilloni
ReplyDeleteSB wrote -- "Stam, I would like to ask Eli Cohen why it's so important that a mayor be Zionist "
ReplyDeleteMY ANSWER -- Zionists are the ones paying TAXES in this city as opposed to the able-body voluntarily-poor haredi population which wants to decide how everyone else's taxes are spent while they enjoy 90% (yes, they raised it from 80%) discounts. Yes, I realize that MANY haredim do pay full taxes but you cannot ignore the fact that LARGE swaths of the haredi population does NOT -- I am talking about the VOLUNTARILY poor -- poor on OUR dime.
So you agree that "Zionist" is a codeword for "not chareidi, because we don't like them", and actually has nothing to do with believing in the State of Israel or any related ideology? Hmm, I wonder why he doesn't just say that outright then...?
ReplyDeleteI have always understood the usage of "zionist" as meaning "not charedi" in the context of these bet shemesh elections. Not because the charedi parties were bad or being banned, but because the hcaredi parties, and only the charedi parties, were supporting moshe abutbol, so the non-charedi parties called their alliance the zionist parties.
ReplyDeletewhat better name should they have called themselves? I dont think there is anything wrong with it. the charedim dont consider themselves zionists in any way, so this name wasnt a way of excluding them when they want to be included.
Rafi, it's more than just a grouping. When Eli Cohen says 'Bet Shemesh needs a Zionist mayor' that may sound nicer than 'Bet Shemesh mustn't have a chareidi mayor', but that is in fact what he is saying. Replace 'chareidi' in that sentence with any other group and you have a lawsuit.
ReplyDelete