Jul 26, 2016

What the Haredim really have against core curriculum studies

I learned something interesting this morning in the non-stop talk about the repealing of the core curriculum (in Haredi schools) law.

It seems that the Haredi leadership is not really against studying English and math (and some other subjects). as the various spokespeople said. They point to the many schools that teach these courses at some level or another.

They say it is up to each school to decide (based on consultation with its rabbonim and the gedolim) what is the appropriate curriculum to teach based on its parent body's wishes and needs. Some teach more, and some teach less. And each person can decide what school to send his kids to - nobody forces anybody to send to a school that does or does not have the extra topics of study.

What they don't want, and what they won't accept, is the government telling them what to do and what to teach. They do not want the government involved in the pedagogic decisions of the Haredi schools. Even if today all they are demanding is something that is really acceptable, like English or math, tomorrow they might make other demands of things that are not acceptable. And, as Motka Bloi said, if we wanted to teach gemara "Eilu Metzios" and the government told us to start teach gemara perek "Hamafkid", we would refuse, as it would be a "gezeira" from the government.

The Haredi opinion, it seems, is that specific topics of study might or might not be ok, but the government telling them what to study is never ok and they will always oppose whatever the government tells them to study, no matter what it is.


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8 comments:

  1. Sounds to me that if the hareidi schools wanted to teach Eilu Metzios, and then the government said they *should* teach Eilu Metzios, that they would then davka *not* teach Eilu Metzios!

    Maybe the government should get smart and make a gezeira that hareidi schools are NOT allowed to teach English and Math, then let's see what happens! I use a similar tactic to get my 4 year old to bed. Works like a charm every time.

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    Replies
    1. that reminds me of a gemara in wich a n amora had a wife who always prepared the opposite food of what he liked and wanted, in order to trick the wife into mkaing what he really liked. The son one day suggested the father ask for the opposite of what he really wanted. His father the amora rebuked him and considered that sheker.

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  2. So they are petulant children?!

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  3. How about if non-charedim use that logic? "We don't want charedim telling us how to run our weddings and mikvaos and kashrus. Even if they are asking for something acceptable, tomorrow they might demand something that is not acceptable! So we will refuse to do anything that they ask."

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    Replies
    1. so get that passed in law, the way the Haredim get what they want passed in law.
      The Haredi parties are very effective in using thei rpolitical power to get their legislation through, on what they consider important.
      the issue you suggest has been unable to be legislated, because nobody is willing to fight the Haredi parties on it. Yesh Atid was in that direction, but they didnt get very far.

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  4. So have theyeshivot and RY publish their secular curriculum standards. Public eisclosure to parents.

    The oublished curriculum will be completely meaningless, and they won't follow it anyway.

    What happens when the sar haChinuch education minister audits the charedi yeshivot, and finds they don't comply with the published curriculum. And that they're yeaching hamafkid instead of the promised eilu metziot?

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  5. I don't understand why this isn't simple. If you take government money, you get government interference. Isn't this why Eidah Hacharedis doesn't take any government funds (at least directly)? Why can't other Charedim do the same? If they want government money, follow government rules. If you don't follow the rules, you don't get the money.

    It's only because Charedim want to have their cake and eat it too, and the government is a weak-willed pushover.

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  6. In this respect, the chareidim are right. Once government has any say in the affairs of education or anything, that is a precedent and it always goes downhill from there. The S.C., as everyone knows hates anything that is Jewish law, etc and once their foot is in the door, who knows what can be dictated. The chareidim need to hold firm and not give in. They should teach what they think is appropriate in the secular realm, such as English, math, things like that. But, they should do that on their own and not by dictate.

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