Showing posts with label Tzohar. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Tzohar. Show all posts

Mar 13, 2022

The farce of "One Kashrut"

Rav Shlomo Aviner posted the following series of questions online (this is my translation):
14 questions to the competing kashrut agency
1. Who is the great posek and expert in kashrut that is guiding you?
2. who runs your kashrut department, who is recognized in Israel and globally as an expert in kashrut?
3. How many years of experience do you have in the field of kashrut?
4. How many places that had their kashrut certification removed by the Rabbanut due to serious infractions - transferred to you to get kashrut in its place?
5. Do you allow products that the Chief Rabbinate does not allow?
6. Do you regularly scoff at the Rabbanut claiming its kashrut is flawed according to halacha?
7. Did you write a halachic opinion in opposition to that of the Rabbanut? Halachic articles with positions not acceptable to the majority of poskim?
8. Did places under your supervision have any of the following issues: bringing in treif food, using regular cauliflower, unsupervised winery, kashrut for a bakery inside a treif restaurant, cooking on Shabbos, importing artichokes infested with bugs?
9. Is a mashgiach who receives a salary from the institution owning the factory paying him - is he free to pasken as he wishes even to remove the kashrut?
10. will competition of two institutions not cause people to find more and more leniencies with the institutions providing minimal kashrut supervision?
11. Is it true that a mashgiach working for the Rabbanut receives 37nis per hour of supervision and by you he receives 73nis per hour - meaning, double? Will this not cause the prices to go up?
12. Is it correct that a business pays the Rabbanut fee of between 527nis and 1383nis for the year and they pay you between 18000 and 30000nis per year - and maybe that causes prices to rise (meaning, 120 million for all the businesses together rather than 10 million)?
13. is it correct that your entire apparatus is supported by donations reaching the millions, ten times the revenue brought in, and in your opinion is that proper?
14. in your opinion is the ideal being one kashrut that everyone can eat from or a multitude of kashrut organizations?

[signed off] One Nation, One State, One Kashrut!

I am not sure the individual questions are all that important but maybe I will relate to some of them, after relating to the bigger picture.

It seems clear, to me at least, that Rav Aviner is referring to Tzohar without saying so explicitly. Unless there are specific claims regarding faults in their supervision (which he alludes to in question #8), the rest of it is mostly irrelevant. I dont care about their individual policies or pricing if it brings about the intended results, of reliable kashrut at a price the public is willing to pay [for the final product].

More generally, if Rav Aviner's goal is one kashrut for everyone, he should be opposed equally to all the other kashrut organizations, yet I have not seen him speak out against them (even if, to be fair, he does prefer the Rabbanut). Why is it ok for Eida, Mahfoud, Rubin, Landau, Kehilot, Beit Yosef, OU and others to operate in the field of kashrut but not Tzohar (or whatever organization he is referring to) - Israel is very far from his ideal of "one Kashrut" and as long as other players are allowed to operate there is no reason to not allow one more. The public will decide which of them to rely on and to support and which not. 


Now to specific questions-
1-3: Rav Aviner's implication is that they do not have kashrut experts and rabbonim. He might not like them or agree with them but they do. Some of them even left the Rabbanut to work for Tzohar.
4. nothing wrong with this if the infractions were fixed and dealt with or if they were only infractions by not meeting Rabbanut standards but were ok by Tzohar (or other) standards... Plenty of food establishments lose one hechsher for whatever reason and then go to another.
5. maybe, maybe not. They do not have to follow Rabbanut policy. They have to follow Tzohar policy.
6. I dont know if they do or not, but if they do just add them to the list of all the Haredi hechshers that do the same.
7. similar to #5, there is no obligation to agree with Rabbanut decisions. they are allowed to disagree on halachic opinions and formulate their own. Disagreement in halacha is nothing new. Nobody has ever made the Rabbanut the final arbiter in halacha.
8. if these issues are true this is a valid issue being raised and hopefully they will fix whatever policies and workflows led to these problems. no hechsher is immune from this. There is no shortage of similar faults in the Rabbanut system either.
9. I dont know Tzohar policy on this but this is a well known problem and is one that plagues many of the kashrut organizations in Israel.
10. competition is always good. It gives the consumer more choice and makes the providers come closer to what the consumer wants. That might be more lenient or more strict. In the Haredi community the more competition the stricter it seems to get, so I am not sure the claim is proven. It might start a drive for more leniencies, it might not. And if it does and the leniencies are all within halacha, there is nothing wrong with it and people can choose which they want to rely on.
11. I dont care what they get paid. If they can pay the mashgiach more without it causing price increases, even better. if it becomes too expensive people wont but the product and food establishments wont hire them.
12. this sounds ridiculous and I have no idea if it is accurate or not but if they are charging so much more than the Rabbanut it seems unlikely restaurants or food producers would be willing to pay that price and they will go out of business.
13. if they are supported by donations, so what?
14. If Tzohar closes down due to the argument of "one kashrut", will we then have one kashrut? Is Tzohar preventing that ideal from happening? There are dozens of kashrut organizations in Israel. Tzohar is just one more.






------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

Sep 1, 2020

Rabbanut and Tzohar agree on kashrut supervision issues... or do they?

This is somewhat complicated and confusing. I am not sure I understand it, but here is the info.

We know that the Rabbanut holds a "monopoly" in Israel on using the word kosher and granting kashrut certification. No other supervising agency besides for the Rabbanut is allowed to declare a place as kosher. The Rabbanut is allowed to start legal action against any organization that does, and in recent months it has. Most of the time, other kashrut agencies simply avoid using the word kosher and stick with more vague and generic terms such as authorized and supervised but not "kosher".

Since Tzohar announced that they are opening up a kashrut supervision division, the Rabbanut has been at odds with them. I am not sure why because there are many other kashrut agencies that the Rabbanut works very nicely with. It is possible that they perceive Tzohar as trying to work as an alternative to the Rabbanut rather than in addition to the Rabbanut, unlike the various "Badatzes" that, for the most part, authorize in addition to the Rabbanut and are not seen as actual competition.

Tzohar announced that they have been in discussions with the Rabbanut over the past few months to find a way to allow Tzohar to give kashrut certification and to ensure the various legal decisions and guidance form the Comptroller are being adhered to. To that end, yesterday the Rabbanut amended their document, giving instructions how the owner of a food establishment could post detailed information about the kashrut status of the food, without using the word kosher with the guidelines based on all the recent legal decisions form the past couple of years.

I don't quite get what the big deal is, as this status has been in affect already. I am not sure how this agreement or discussion with Tzohar changes anything. it seems like it maybe encouraged the Rabbanut to formalize on paper the rules that are already in place. Maybe it clarified a little better what types of words and wordings are allowed and what is not allowed.

After Tzohar took some credit for getting the Rabbanut to back down and meet Tzohar and amend their rules. the Rabbanut itself denied any such cooperation with Tzohar on this matter.

The Rabbanut clarified and said that in recent months they have started legal action against food establishments that have broken the rules and used the word kosher  against the law and now they have simply clarified their policy of enforcement according to the decisions and rulings of the courts and the government legal counsel.

this sounds like making a big news story out of nothing. The rules haven't changed. The Rabbanut just hired a secretary to edit a document with the guidelines that have been in place already anyway.



------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

Jan 20, 2019

Tiberias restaurants losing hechsher

The saga in Tiberias continues with Ron Kobi continuing with his street parties on Shabbos on the boardwalk. The casualties so far, besides for Shabbos itself, now include the first restaurant to lose its hechsher. The restaurant named Basel decided to open on Shabbos to benefit from the large numbers of visitors and potential business, and the hechsher was immediately pulled.

Interestingly, the hechsher on this restaurant was mehadrin under the certification of Rabbanut Tiberias Mehadrin and Chug Chatam Sofer (Petach Tikva). It surprised me to hear that of all the restaurants that might have decided to forgo the hechsher and open on Shabbos, the first one to do so would be a mehadrin restaurant. I guess with no business on Shabbos it paid to be mehadrin to get the more religious business, but that did not override the ability to do business on Shabbos.

I heard Ron Kobi, the mayor, justify this saying that Shabbos isnt a factor and no more coercion, and the Rabbanut isn't necessary as Tzohar is available and restaurants and hotels can switch to Tzohar.

I have no idea what Tzohar's rules and requirements are, but I would be surprised to hear that they would be part of allowing chilul shabbos and will give a hechsher to a place open on Shabbos without being able to certify it. Perhaps they have other solutions the Rabbanut would not consider, I do not know, but my guess is that the switch to Tzohar will not make a big difference in this rgeard. There might be other reasons and benefits for them, but I have a hard time believing that all the restaurants in Tiberias that want to open on Shabbos will just switch to Tzohar certification and will suddenly be able to do so.


------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

Jun 28, 2018

Tzohar makes mistake with wedding witnesses

A wedding took place yesterday of a secular couple. The wedding was officiated by a rabbi from the Tzohar organization. It was discovered today that a serious mistake happened at the wedding and the witnesses were related to each other (through marriage) and were invalid. Tzohar says the wedding will be redone to correct the mistake.

That mistake is now being used against Tzohar and is being used to tell the public how poor of an organization Tzohar is and not knowledgeable about halacha and should not be used.

Mistakes happen. I am not going to defend the rabbi and come up with excuses and explanations as to how he made such a mistake. I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head even without knowing details of the case. But that is not my business nor does it interest me.

I would point out that there are plenty of rabbis, and I think Rav Shach was among them, who believed that it is proper to use invalid witnesses at the wedding of a secular Jew in order to invalidate the wedding from the start. According to that opinion, this would protect the couple from future problems in case of divorce and possible mamzeirus scenarios. Obviously that is not what Tzohar believes, I dont think, they made a genuine mistake, but still, this isnt as big a deal as some might make it out to be.

Further, we just learned recently of two cases in which the batei din found ways to invalidate the witnesses of old weddings and declare the couple retroactively not married. Meaning, the Rabbanut, and/or other rabbinic organizations, have made such a mistake in the past as well. So don't hold it against Tzohar when it can happen to anybody.

Mistakes happen. It is upsetting for the couple and for their family, but it isnt the greatest tragedy ever. Move on. Rely on Tzohar or not, this should not affect your approach to them in any way.



------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

May 10, 2018

Tzohar converts non-kosher branch of Aroma to kosher

The new kashrut organization headed by Tzohar has logged a major victory in its ability to persuade a certain branch of the Aroma chain, located in Tel Aviv, to take on the hechsher becoming kosher, after it has always refused to do so in the past. This branch has remained open on shabbos and it has been serving, until now, both meat and dairy dishes. Obviously, as part of its acceptance of Tzohar kashrus, it will close on Shabbos and holidays and convert to serving only dairy dishes.
source: Kipa

Other businesses have taken on Tzohar's kashrut already, but this specifically is a major victory for Tzohar and for kashrut. Perhaps one could say that, with all the controversy surrounding the opening of the Tzohar kashrut division, perhaps the entire enterprise is worth it even if just for this one location that will now be serving kosher food and remain closed on Shabbos - and hopefully they will have many more like it.

I do not know why this branch of Aroma was willing to convert to kosher for Tzohar but they were not willing to do so for the Rabbanut. I would like to hear what changed. I also wait to see the Rabbanut's response to this announcement.



------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

Feb 26, 2018

The hechsher that broke the Rabbanut's back

Tzohar announced the opening of a new kashrut certification under their umbrella. The Rabbanu tis very upset and is warning that if Tzohar goes through with it this will do a lot of damage to the state religious services and to the Rabbanut specifically.

I don't get why they are so nervous and why they think this will cause them so much damage.

I might or might not rely on this new hechsher. I might or might not rely on the Rabbanut hechsher. You might or might nor rely on this or that hechsher.

The fact is that there are already a dozen or more private hechshers functioning at very high levels with holdings in significant portions of the food marketplace. What is the big deal that one more is opening up? Why is one more so damaging? Some people will rely on it, and some people will not, just like every other hechsher in the country including the Rabbanut and including every single Badatz.


------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

Sep 18, 2017

Rabbanut threatens Rav Stav while Bet Yosef flourishes

In response to persisting rumors that the Tzohar organization is planning to open a kashrut division through which they will certify food establishments as kosher, the Rabbanut has sent Rav Stav, head of Tzohar and Chief Rabbi of Shoham, a letter saying that if he does indeed open such a division that will compete with the Rabbanut, the Rabbanut will be forced to relieve him of his duties from his position as Chief Rabbi of Shoham.
source: Haredim10

If them's the rules, them's the rules. If he cannot function in  both capacities due to some conflict of interest, Rav Stav will have to choose which is more important for him, for the organization or for his work and his goal in effecting the nation.

That being said, where were such letters when the Yosef family opened the Bet Yosef kashrut organization. Were the various Rabbis Yosef ever warned or relieved of their duties for running a competing kashrut organization? The Bet Yosef hechsher is flourishing. One of the Yosef brothers,chief rabbi of an Israeli city, has even been indicted for this breach of pushing the Bet Yosef hechsher over the Rabbanut, so we see this has even been abused by them with no warnings or action form the Rabbanut.

I only mention the Yosef family because that is the only one that comes to mind. If there are other State-appointed rabbis running kashrut organizations, the same question would apply regarding them.

Apply the same rules to everyone.


------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

Aug 22, 2017

Quote of the Day

Also the "Kipot Srugot" today, in very large communities, mostly in the center of the country, are already borderline Reform. Anyone who knows how their shuls function and their prayer services - very drastic changes.. true, there are more with kippot, and they are more Israeli, but it is borderline Reform..

  -- Minister Aryeh Deri



------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

Jan 21, 2014

Breaking News: Rabbinic organization (Tzohar) forms rabbinic council to discuss issues!

The rabbinic organization Tzohar has now formed its own rabbinical council.

Some see it as an alternative to the Rabbanuts rabbinic council, but Tzohar people say they have no power, and they know it, and are basically just a group of talmidei chachomim who meet to discuss the issues and whoever wants to act in a specific way base don the discussions and conclusions is able to, and those who don't, don't need to. The example is a recent council meeting discussing prenuptial agreements. Any rabbi that wants to promote it to those he marries off, can, and any that don't, don't need to. No decision is obligating. And, they aren't going to deal with Rabbanut issues - such as kashrut and importing food..

Wait - I thought the entire purpose of Tzohar was to be an alternative to the Rabbanut.. They were a rabbinic alternative prior to the council being formed, and remain an alternative after it has been formed. Even though the council has no power.

I am not even sure what it means, especially knowing that they have no actual implementation power. I mean - before they formed this "rabbinical council", what did they do to make decisions in halacha or to discuss issues. Isn't a rabbinical council really just a forum of rabbis discussing an issue and investigating the various halachic approaches and possibilities? Until now, when they were deciding a policy or stance in halacha, did they not have a group of rabbis discuss the issues and come to conclusions? Is that not in essence a rabbinical council? I would expect a rabbinic organization to have its rabbis meet to discuss the issues. So, this formation of a council seems to be only natural to the nature of the organization, and makes me wonder why only now.

The truth is, I originally planned on ignoring the announcement. It is an interesting tidbit, but not really all that comment-worthy.

That is, until the opposition to the new council spoke up. According to Kikar, haredi rabbis are opposed to the formation of this council due to its being an alternative to the Rabbanut.

I am not quite sure what that means? Why should this bother the haredi rabbis?  The haredi rabbis and public do not follow the Rabbanut at all anyway. The haredi community has a number of rabbinic councils that are alternatives to the Rabbanut - the Litvishe rabbinic council, the chassidishe rabbinic council, the sephardi rabbinic council, the Eida rabbinic council, and you can probably find half a dozen other groups that each have their own rabbinic council. So all these people can have rabbinic councils that are alternatives to the Rabbanut but Tzohar cannot?

Rav Neventzahl is quoted with different opposition - he has a problem with them because he thinks they are planning to pasken against halacha and look for leniencies, whether halachic-based or not. Rav Neventzahl considers the organization to be a danger to Judaism, and just like he, and others, oppose Tzohar in general, he also opposes the rabbinic council and says they will make the country less Jewish, more assimilated.

The haredi opinion on Tzohar is well-known, and I am not going to get involved in that. It came out in all its glory recently when Rabbi Stav ran for the position of Chief Rabbi. No need to rehash it all now. But, as a rabbinical organization, whether I follow them or not, whether I hold by them or not, I would expect of them nothing less than having a forum in which the rabbis can meet and discuss the issues.



------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------

Feb 21, 2012

Our Hands Did Not Spill This Blood - Modern Day Egla Arufa

A female soldier was recently killed in a hit-and-run accident outside of Yokneam. A group of rabbonim from the Tzohar organization decided to hold a modern-version of the "egla arufa" ceremony in it's wake.

What is the modern-day version of egla arufa?

It's actually a bit disappointing. They went to the gas station next to where the soldier was killed and held a prayer session and made a public call to be more careful on the road, along with a public protest against the moral injustice of hitting and running.

The rabbonim involved in the ceremony made do with the prayer and protest, and did not break the neck of a calf beside the river. They explained that it is incomprehensible that blood can be spilled like this and the public should not have to answer for it.... "We have responsibility for blood spilled in traffic accidents. We have responsibility for the blood of the youth that is spilled in stupid fights. [we have responsibility for blood spilled] of women killed by their husbands. We have responsibility for blood spilled in the murders that fill the pages of our newspapers. When talking about people's lives, we cannot shirk our responsibility....". "We cannot get used to it, and we cannot say it is part of life. We must take responsibility for the blood spilled."
(source: Srugim, among others)

Interesting.

Nov 9, 2011

Tzohar Marriage Services Being Shut Down

Yesterday, Tzohar announced that it's rabbis will no longer be able to officiate at weddings in Israel.

Tzohar is a rabbinic organization providing an alternative to the Rabbanut for anybody who wants to avoid the Rabbanut and it's government level of bureaucracy. Many Israelis have found Tzohar rabbis to be considerate and attentive relative to the level of service provided by Rabbanut rabbis and have enjoyed the service provided. They have made inroads particularly among Israelis who would never go to the Rabbanut, for whatever reason, and would prefer a civil marriage in Cyprus instead - with Tzohar available, many have agreed to undergo Jewish wedding ceremonies instead.

Now, Tzohar has been told by Religious Services Minister Yaakov Margi that they can no longer provide these services. It is against the law, as by law all marriages must go through the Rabbanut. Margi said that he could not allow "a mini Rabbinate" to be formed.

Tzohar has immediately closed its marriage division, announcing that it could no longer provide this service. On the Tzohar website they ask the public to contact the minister to complain and fight to get the service reinstated.

The main issue seems to be the way in which the marriages are registered. Couples are supposed to register in the Rabbanut of the city in which they live, or where at least one of them lives, yet with Tzohar all marriages have been processed through one of two offices -either Shoham or Gush Etzion - even when neither member of a registering couple lives in those areas.

What I fail to understand is how Margi can cancel the Tzohar services while at the same time allow the Haredi services, through the Badatz and Rav Nissim Karelitz in Bnei Braq, to continue operating. The haredi services have been functioning in exactly the same manner, with couples who don't want to go to the Rabbanut going to the Eida instead. And with the haredi system, they registered couples regardless of where they live - a couple both living outside of Jerusalem (say, Beitar and Bet Shemesh, for example) would still be processed in the Eida in Jerusalem, despite neither member living there.

Margi says he is treating everyone equally, requiring the same of everyone, yet he has failed to explain how he allows the haredi system to continue operating while he cancels the allowance for Tzohar. Perhaps Tzohar should consider suing for discrimination, saying that if he is going to continue allowing exceptions to the rule via the eida, he should have to continue allowing them as well.

May 22, 2011

Good Ideas With No Foresight

One of the common customs of Lag B'Omer is the chalaka, the first haircut for a 3 year old boy. It really does not have much to do with lag B'Omer - no matter when the boy's birthday is, the parents will delay the first haircut until the 3rd birthday. This custom, based on the Zohar, used to be common mainly among sefardim and chassidim, and today many Litvshe do it as well. However, many try to delay it until Lag B'Omer, especially if the 3rd birthday is around Lag B"Omer time, and then they throw the hair from the haircut into the fire.

The rabbonim of the Tzohar organization came up with a nice idea. A way to capitalize on the minhag of cutting the long hair of these children and actually do some good with it at the same time. They have decided to encourage those who perform this custom to collect the hair and donate it to organizations, such as Zichron Menachem, that make wigs for people with cancer.

It is a great idea, and is one that can help, at no cost to the donor, others in need. Unfortunately, the idea was only publicized today, as far as I know. At least, I only saw it today in the Arutz 7 website. Announcing such a program on "the day of" is a little pointless. Few people would see such an announcement, or have the patience at the last minute to deal with making the proper arrangements.

It is almost like the Chief Rabbinate starting a push to have Lag B'Omer bonfire pushed off to Sunday just 2 weeks prior to Lag B'Omer. How can anybody make proper arrangements under such short notice? Sure, a bonfire can be pushed off a couple of hours, but can school schedules be rearranged, can tests be rescheduled, under such short notice? of course not. And it is not like Lag B'Omer's arrivals surprised anybody. It happens every year on the same date. It is published in the regular calendars in Israel.

With just a little foresight these people would be able to get their great ideas actually implemented.

Apr 7, 2010

Rabbanei Tzohar respond about buying chametz

In response to the publicized psak in the name of Rav Elyashiv (note that I never said Rav Elyashiv said it, just that it is being said in his name - unless you hear a psak from him directly you should never assume something said in his name is accurate or true), the Rabbonim of Tzohar have issued a counter psak.

Rabbanei Tzohar have said that such a psak is divisive and is not correct. You can buy chamtez from a chiloni who sold his chametz before Pesach to a non-Jew. You cannot look at it as a chiloni selling his chametz as doing a purely religious act, with no meaning or intent behind it. A chiloni businessman who decides to sell his chametz before Pesach to a non-Jew does so with full intention to sell it because he knows that religious people will not be able to buy from him if he doesn't do so. Because of that, his intention is to sell the chametz.

Rabbanei Tzohar continue and say that if Rav Efrati's statement would be correct, we should invalidate everything religious chilonim do - we should invalidate their marriages, because after all, maybe they didn't really have full intention, full gemiras da'as..and maybe they were doing a "purely religiously imposed act". Such piskei halacha have no basis or foundation and are simply divisive in situations where there is no justification to be so. (source: Ynet)

Mar 15, 2010

Rabbonei Tzohar Against Yaakov Litzman

I am not sure what the point of this is, as I thought the government already voted on it and decided not to move the graves, based on Litzman's opposition, in Ashkelon on behalf of construction of the new emergency room for the hospital.

Yet perhaps the fight goes on because they think they can get it back on the table and get the emergency room built.

The fight until now has been based on those who accept the Rabbanut psak that the graves are almost definitely not of Jewish origin and therefore can be moved, respectfully of course, compared to those who accept the psak of the Asra Kadisha who say that the graves are likely to be Jewish and cannot be moved.

Along come the rabbonim of Tzohar and have thrown a onkey wrench into the works. They have offered a new psak. They say that even if the graves are Jewish they can be moved, respectfully of course. The halacha says that graves can be reinterred to new location when the graves cause damage to the public. The rabbonim of Tzohar say that these graves are causing a clear danger to the public, by preventing the emergency room from being built, and they can therefore be respectfully moved.

Is this enough to get the issue back on the table? Will the government suddenly reverse its acceptance of Litzman's position simply because the rabbonim of Tzohar offered an alternative psak, not even supported, yet at least, by the Rabbanut? I doubt it. I think it will only serve to fan the flames of public opinion against Litzman, though as part of the overall halachic debate it is a worthy opinion that should be publicized.

Related Posts

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...