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Free The Hostages! Bring Them Home!

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Dec 23, 2024

Quote of the Day

A partial agreement with Hamas will bring the abandonment of tens of hostages in captivity, will leave Hamas controlling the Gaza Strip and will enable it to prepare the next slaughter via the murderers who will be released from prison, ergo we oppose this bad deal and will work with all our energy to prevent it.

  -- Minister Betzalel Smotritch

I too prefer a deal now for all the hostages rather than for only some of them, but if that can't happen, then some is better than none. Smotritch prefers to abandon all of them than some of them which does not make sense. As far as Hamas controlling Gaza - if Israel would work to bring in another controlling force rather than just expecting it to happen on its own, Israel could ensure Hamas lose control of Gaza.






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11 comments:

  1. Another example of the wrong guy saying the right thing.
    From the beginning, Israel's position should've been
    1) Return all the hostages, ALL OF THEM and surrender
    2) Then we'll stop hitting you
    The minute they started talking about a few here or there and how many Arabs for how many hostages, this became inevitable.
    The thing to do know is say "Look, Hamas can't return all the hostages because it doesn't know where they are. When they do, call us."

    ReplyDelete
  2. Calling this some vs. all is such an oversimplification that it loses all accuracy.
    This is (i) freeing some while making the situation of the REMAINING HOSTAGES WORSE; vs. (ii) all.
    Why? Because Hamas is not stupid and ONLY cares about survival as a means for maximizing Jew murder and Jew torture. The only 'coin' they accept in exchange for our hostages are actions that hurt the remaining hostages, and actions that set up the NEXT hostage grab.

    Am I saying 'no deal'? Not at all, but at least we should be honest about the price.

    ReplyDelete
  3. why is it assumed the situation for the remaining will get worse (beyond the natural decreasing conditions as they continue to be deprived of oxygen and medical care, etc)? if we made a deal a year ago and left hostages behind, and are making a deal now (hopefully), if some hostages get left behind (hopefully not), why cant they still be held in the same conditions until the next deal is possible?
    I hate this question because every day, every minute, there is horrible and pikuach nefesh, but should we really leave them all there rather than get out as many as possible?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Well that's in the FINE print of any deal. Any deal that allows Gaza to re-connect with Sinai makes it worse for the remaining hostages -- their captors get resupply and the hostages can be smuggled out. Any deal that makes it easier to move hostages around between cities in Gaza reduces the chance of rescue or the chance of increasing pressure post-Jan 20. Any deal which requires Israeli retreat from Gaza and 'the end of the war' abandons the hostages in Gaza and completely eliminates the chance of rescue. We do NOT want a Ron Arad 2.0

    Now I ask you a question -- Do you assume that "Smotritch prefers to abandon all of them than some of them" ??? Do you speak to Smotrich? Did he tell you that? Maybe his prime concern was what I wrote about (the fate of those left behind)? Or maybe his prime concern was avoiding FUTURE hostages, something not prioritized in the previous exchanges 1986-2012 and for which we paid on Oct 7 [and continue to pay] a HUGE price today.

    Do you agree with Netanyahu's decision to go forward with the Gilad Shalit deal?

    If G-d forbid, one of your loved ones was one of the hostages left behind, would you prefer such a deal, or the current (also horrible) situation?

    I do not pretend to have all (or any) of the answers - but we should stop lying to ourselves.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Do you assume that "Smotritch prefers to abandon all of them than some of them" ???
    didnt he say exactly that? he wont agree to a partial deal, meaning he prefers to leave everyone there than to get some back. Ben Gvir has also said the same thing but worse - he wont even agree to a deal getting them all back because he feels he has to protect thousands of women in the future from getting raped by Hamas terrorists, so better the 100 people held hostage now should continue to suffer and get raped and whatnot rather than the possibility of thousands more getting raped in the future.

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  6. Did Smotrich use the word "abandon" ? Source please. Or did you INFER the word 'abandon' ? That's a tall order to infer. We need to get OUT of the habit of inferring the worst in others unless you have explicit support.

    'Prefers to abandon' - what a WORD combination - you better be DARN sure it is true before you make that accusation.

    Smotrich's position is that "it is better to leave the IDF in, constantly trying to rescue hostages, than to sign a deal which frees some and leaves in others" where chance of IDF rescue is lower. Think of it as a time-warp back to the universally accepted position in the 1970s [we do not negotiate with hostages].

    Is is possible that Smotrich is trying to minimize hostage-suffering (like everyone else) but is WRONG about the prescribed course-of-action? Absolutely - it iS possible that the IDF has zero chance of freeing more hostages. But that is VERY different from IMPUTING on Smotrich morally repugnant qualities that simply are not there.

    Now please answer my other questions (especially the one about Shalit, from the vantage of Dec 2024)-->

    (i) Do you agree with Netanyahu's decision to go forward with the Gilad Shalit deal?
    (ii) If G-d forbid, one of your loved ones was one of the hostages left behind, would you prefer such a deal, or the current (also horrible) situation?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. my policy in general is that I dont know enough to determine if something is a good deal or not but if the security forces, and the politicians support it then I think we can move ahead with it. The Shalit deal probably could have been fine, had Israel not decided to build up Hamas but to respond harshly to rocket attacks and other terrorist activities. it is easy but disingenuous to blame the Shalit deal for the following terror plus October 7 - yes, terrorists were released but Israel could have handled them better, not paid them to build tunnels, not allowed them to shoot rockets and build terror infrastructure. it wasnt the deal that led to Oct 7 but the negligence of the government who set bad policy in the years since the deal thinking they could buy quiet

      Delete
    2. what else would you call it other than abandon? he thinks a deal should not be done, meaning he wants to leave the hostages right where they are. use whatever word you think is more accurate than abandon

      Delete
  7. By 'security forces' I assume that you refer to the 'upper echelon' of the 'security forces.'

    Generally speaking, I EMPATHIZE with the concept of 'ask the experts' (within limits -- you would NOT ask the physician with the large marketing contract from Big Pharma) and I WISH we lived in such a world. Unfortunately, I believe your level of naivete is beyond astounding.

    Here is a headline from August 2022 --> "Security officials said to warn of Hezbollah escalation if no Lebanon gas deal"

    AND MORE -->

    This upper echelon stated pre-Oct 2023 that Hamas was 'deterred," this upper echelon (Rabin/Ehud Barak/Amnon Lipikin Shahak) was in FAVOR of Oslo [in fact, that was the effectively ONLY argument used to 'sell Oslo' in the 1990s, there was NO discussion on the merits - when the right WARNED of kassam missilse in Ashkelon and infiltrations of pogromists in 1993 they were LAUGHED at and denounced as paranoid and much stupider than 'security forces'].

    For DECADES, this upper echelon was more than happy to sign a deal giving the Golan Heights to Assad to 'entice him away from Iran' -- ask IDF chief of staff Yichkak Rabin z'l and Ehud Barak.

    This upper echelon of security forces was also in favor of the 2005 Gaza disengagement (led by Ariel Sharon z'l, Israel's greatest general) [including leaving Philadelphi corridor as signed off by former Chief of Staff Shaul Mofaz!!!] and had no problem with Gilad Shalit deal.

    Your relation to the 'security forces' actually reminds me of how haredim relate to 'gedolim shlita' - instead of thinking for yourself, let's just outsource that to someone else with 'high rank'

    ReplyDelete
  8. I also am not convinced that the best of the best are the ones promoted to the top of the IDF pyramid. Was Bogie a better military man than Effie Eitam? I doubt it. Herzi Halevi better than Ofir Winter?? I'm not convinced.

    Gen (Res) Yizhak Brick, who is NO right winger and NO "Bibi-ist" (he thinks Bibi must resign) has spoken about this at length.

    You don't even need any CONSPIRACY theories to understand how organizations can be plagued with groupthink and preference of (relative) MEDIOCRITY over EXCELLENCE - anyone who has been around corporate politics long enough understands that the ability to be promoted and the ability to achieve the best for the organization are two VERY different skill sets.

    WELL-RUN companies suffer from this less than their counterparts.

    ReplyDelete
  9. neither you nor I (or at least not I, I dont know what you do or dont know) know if Effie Eitam or Vinter would have been better than those who did serve. Maybe they would have maybe not. That being said, Herzi Halevi was [at least partly] responsible for the big failure of October 7, but he also recovered to lead a brilliant war leading Israel to many successes and successful operations. I dont buy into your position that everyone is bad except the couple of people who had no responsibility for anything

    ReplyDelete

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