Apr 10, 2018

we will not stand (video)

my comments after the video

good for him, speaking unabashedly about his beliefs.

I agree with him, sort of. I disagree with the reasons he gives and think his opinions are not historically or socially accurate, but agree that he has the right to not stand if he does not want to or think it is the right thing to do. Just like many Jews and Israelis do not keep Shabbos and do not, for example, fast on Tisha b'Av despite the importance these days are held by the many religious Israelis, the Haredi comunity, or parts of it, do not need to commemorate Yom HaShoah the way other Israelis prefer to, if, or because, it goes against their beliefs. I have no problem with that. I think flaunting it in public, not standing when outside, is wrong and insensitive, but if what you are doing is not hurtful and is done in private, I have no problem with it.

That being said, he says they commemorate the day in their own way - by saying chapters of tehillim and learning mishnayos in the yeshivas. This is a shame, as it is not true. Instead of just saying something like we don't commemorate the day because we don't agree with the chosen date or the method of commemoration, he decided to pander a bit saying we do it just differently. But that is not true. The yeshivas are not even in session on Yom Hashoah and there are no organized prayer sessions in memory of the victims and no organized mishnayos learning. Perhaps some individuals do, but as a community there is no such commemoration.

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  1. Of course not because we don't make up random dates to decide when to celebrate and mourn. So yes, we learn Mishnayos - but not as a celebration of Yom HaAtzmaut, but as every other day where the world requires Torah to sustain it. And not in honor of Yom Hashoa, because that is another made up day. We cry and Daven on the real Yom Hashoa - the Yom Hachurban of every Jewish tragedy - 9 Av. You're right though. He shouldn't care what they think. The non-religious don't honor the Shabbos sirens, why in heck should we honor the other sirens. Is G-d's honor less important than that of people? But unlike most spiteful non-religious folks here, most of us will stand in public for Shalom purposes, and rightfully ignore it in private.

  2. No, being truly honest would be to say, "We don't agree with the whole idea of the State of Israel, period, and so ignore it as best we can. Except, of course, to take lots of money from it, and enjoy the protection of its military. And use the streets it paves. And have our trash picked up by it. And get our healthcare from it. And..."

  3. Fine, the days are "arbitrary" or at least not what Haredim would prefer. Fine, the commemorations are done publicly in ways that, where Haredim deciding how to do it, they would chose different forms of commemoration. And fine - it's a free country! They can choose to do whatever they would like.

    But is Achdus EVER a priority? Must Haredim never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity when it comes to standing together with the rest of Klal Yisroel? Where's the issur, where is the krumkeit in standing for a minute in silence, simply out of respect for days that (this guy at least) says he respects? Why does it always have to be m'chut v'ad sroch naal?

    Is standing for the siren really going to lead to mixed dancing?

  4. On the news program on Radio Kol Chai this morning, the presenter sent a message to fellow-Charedim who are considering commenting in public on the observance or non-observance of these days. He basically said that now would be a good time to remain quiet as no matter what you say a segment of society will not understand, will be offended, and it will cause animosity at a time that we need unity.

    Unfortunately the chap in this video did not hear (or at least not heed) to the message on the radio this morning. He missed a great opportunity to keep his mouth shut. Whether he stands during the siren or uses that minute to recite Tehilim is up to him, but there were many things in this 2 minute video which were not clear, badly worded, open to mis-interpretation, or just plain offensive)

  5. The חוקת הגוים argument is plain ignorance. The רמ"א gave straightforward criteria as to what constitutes חוקת הגוים, and there's no way standing silent during the siren can be prohibited according to the רמ"א. And don't bring up the גר"א's more inclusive criteria- are we to believe that all חרדים agree with the גר"א against the רמ"א!?
    In any case, even according to the גר"א, the practice may still be permitted. Standing is a sign of respect in Jewish tradition, and silence is also mandated by the Torah as a sign of mourning ("האנק דום").

  6. Anon at 1:05 pm comment, is the best, along with two others here. The obvious reason we have these madeup 'holidays, memorials', etc. in today's Israel is because the whole founding of the state were created by those who wanted the discarding of Torah and instead following the ways of the nations and their customs, r'l. It's as simple as that. Those who feel it's wrong, of course, would be wise to just stand in silence in public. Until the nation comes back to Torah and we merit Moshiach, best to be silent because it makes the haters even more hateful. moishe


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