Apr 22, 2009

The root of all evil - mixed buses

Tomorrow is going to be a "Tzniyus Rally" in jerusalem. the topic is the situation of public transportation, as Rav Eluyashiv among other rabbonim will supposedly call upon the public to only use separate buses, as mixed buses are prohibited because of the lack of of tzniyus.

the letter says that many of our physical problems (illnesses perhaps?) and financial problems recently obligate us to look at our actions and repent. The solution is to improve our level of tzniyus, specifically by only using separate buses, as the halacha obligates us.

The rally will provide bountiful blessing upon those who come and participate.

Bluke asks some good questions about this announcement and how it describes it as a halachic obligation.

While our chachomim perhaps have some level of ruach hakodesh, I wonder why the problem is always tzniyus..... why not something more exciting once in a while. Mix it up with a bit of dishonesty and corruption. Maybe once in a while a touch of too much anger or gaavah.


  1. what changed since the time the gedolim rode the mixed buses, and when did it change?

    Weren't the mehadrin buses a bottom-up idea of some chassidim? it didnt actually start from on high, did it?

  2. simple- Rabbanim are men - men are lazy - they dump all the tzarros on the women. Anything else - and they would actually have to work on themselves...

  3. My favorite part of this notice: "Zman Kayitz" (Summer time - i.e. Daylight Saving Time). This, of course, is in order to make sure that those who ignore all artifacts of the State, including changing the clock, will get there at the right time.

    Of course, it would be much better to call the rally for 15:30 (16:30 לשעונם - according to "their" clock), similar to way civil dates are used.

  4. interesting point. thanks Richie

  5. Not G.

    I think they're referring to the world recession that's cutting their funding. Maybe they should be paying for more tznius among bankers the US.

    Some real tzniut there; real hatzne'a lechet, not the artificial tznius they're talking about might well have prevented the current problems.

  6. "praying" not "paying" in previous comment.

  7. personally, my problem was never the bus since most people are sitting down and you can't see anyone really anyway. The problem is at the bus stops where men and women wait at the same bus stop (oy vey!) and it's even worse because in order to adhere to the expected adherences the men and women stand apart making it even easier for the men to look at the women waiting for the bus with their designer (but tzniyusdik) clothes and sheitels. So we need seperate bus stops really even more than seperate buses. Also when they're walkign down the street - OY VEY! we really need seperate streets not to mention seperate stores, parks maybe even seperate neighborhoods. I mean if a husband and wife would interact less then there'd probably be less divorce right and we'd solve all the worlds problems. You know in all the medrashim that talk about Kriyat Yam Suf and how there were 12 different tunnels - 1 for each tribe, no where does it mention a 13th tunnel for the women also kinda makes you think about the gemara where the Rabbi's wife would go out to the edge of the city to meet her husband and walk with him home TOGETHER so that he shouldn't look at other women. Because of her actions (amongst a few other actions) she was zoche to have her prayers for rain answered first. Don't you think that things are getting a bit out of hand.

  8. you are wrong about the 13th tunnel. there were an extra 12 tunnels for the women split by tribes.

  9. what's your source for the extra tunnels?

  10. I was writing ti in humor/sarcasm. if they made extra tunnels for the women, they would have made an extra 12, not an extra one.

  11. Richie,

    Uhhh... daylight savings time started a while ago (I really hope you've already noticed). What they are probably referring to is the resumption of organized study in Yeshivot after the Pesach "bein hazmanim". The rally is apparently scheduled for the last day of bein hazmanim, or the day before ("erev") zman.

    (Also, DST is called Shaon Kayitz, not Zman Kayitz.)

    Of course, even standard time is an artifact of the State. Israel could have decided to be 1/2 hour off (like parts of India), or to have created its own system entirely. I've never heard (though I could be misinformed) of mainstream hareidim rejecting the switch to DST, just not being happy about when it occurs.


    According to the current practice, it's clear that the women used the backs of the tunnels, after the men. This explains why Shirat Miryam comes second: the men were singing while the women were still crossing!


  12. What could be more exciting, really, Rafi?

    Yeah, well ;-)

  13. What's more likely is that the over-emphasis in the Chareidi community is CAUSE of many problems. Just look at our community. Violence, Loshon Hora, property damage, G'neiva, Sinat Chinam.

    I don't believe that there's any Ruach Hakodesh present here.

  14. The root of all evil??

    If anyone wants to stop "evil" they should think about practicing a little more ahavas yisroel...

  15. How about separate cities?

    Or best - send the women to the West Bank!!

    Inside the green line - for men only!!!

    Seriously, this is all actually an Orwellian tactic. In order to control the mob, you create an enemy - the medineh, egged, mizrachi, whoever, whom you get people riled up against - then you can control them easy.

    If we had serious leadership with or w/o ruach haKodesh (common sense will do fine in this instance) they would know that the Yeshiva system (and Charedi society as a whole) is majorly flawed in a fundamental way and work on the obvious issues (obvous to anyone who realizes that not all problems are because we are not "frum" enough)

    Such as: the many many bochurim/girls who do not fit into the rigid mold set for them by Charedi society that never existed in Klal Yisroel, ever (well maybe in the midbar)

    Responsible leadership would advocate for more Haredim in the army and negotiate w/ the army to ensure that army is a place where a bochur can grow in ruchniyus.

    Then htese bochurim can go to college etc. and find thier calling in life as a productive citizen who is therby serving Hashem.

    Instead we have Yeshivos which mass produce am ho-aratzim who have no goals and no accomplishments in life (in Torah as well!).

    The Yshiva system should also start educating with - perish the tomei thought - a goal (chidush in and of itself) of actually coming out knowing something. Anyone who spends as much time as Haredim do should be boki in at least a coupla Sedorim in Shas and Orach Chayim, much of YD with the major meforshim.

    In stead we dray around all day vomiting boich sevoros and smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee.

  16. Everyone "out there" (and particularly in RBSA) should begin to realize that life as you know it is going to change.

    The Charedim are going more Charedi and you'll just have to deal with it.

    By voting for a Charedi mayor,patronizing very Charedi Rabbonim(Perlstein,Goldstein,Kornfeld,et al), allowing our kid's schools to become even more silly with their takanonim, supporting very Charedi organizations (Kupa,Vaad Harabbonim Artzi,etc)

    we only empower this absurd move to becoming Talaban.By supporting the organizations of these rabbonim we make them even stronger.

    Last year there was a beautiful tekes/parade/concert on Yom HaaTzmaut. Another is planned for this year.

    How long will it be before such activities will "offend the sensitivities" of the locals and be pushed off into Bet Shemesh? As it is there are plenty of streets in RBSA that don't sport flags for Yom Haatzmaut.

    Do these same people become offended when they see symbols of Medinat Yisrael on their checks,zchuyot, etc?

    Perhaps this not so silent majority should take the teachings of Rav Kook, z''l and be as Chared in their bein adom l'chaveiro as their are in their bein adom lamakom.

  17. not G.

    "According to the current practice, it's clear that the women used the backs of the tunnels, after the men. This explains why Shirat Miryam comes second: the men were singing while the women were still crossing!"

    ..and it explains why the women only start singing and dancing afterwards, when the men had already finished and cleared out so that they wouldn't see or hear.

    "va-tetzena kol hanashim akhareha" obvious means that only at this point in the procedings did the women come out of the sea.

    It also explains why they only sang one line as opposed to the men's 19 because the men had already started to move on and they had to catch up.

    Now, if you are asking how come the mizrim were already getting drowned and yet the women were still in the water, well that's simple. It is clear from 14:29 that bnai yisrael were still in the water after already in 14:28 the mizrim were being drowned, so you see there is no problem. In any case it just makes the nes bigger, so who cares.


  18. anon 9 42 AM (4.23.09)...wow wow wow. very scary but SO true.

    You sound just like my husband.

    how can we fight this mass brainwashing? it is just so sad to witness. we will never know how many bright minds and diamonds in the rough are being prevented from living out their potential for fear of being excommunicated.


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