Showing posts with label Yevul Nochri. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Yevul Nochri. Show all posts

Nov 1, 2015

and maybe it is not because of Har Habayit...

I'm not a big fan of the way some people state definitively what causes things to happen. Unless a person is a prophet or claims to have God talking to him (or her), people who say such things are only taking guesses, often influenced by their prejudices. I am more open to the idea of introspection (even on a communal level) rather than assigning blame.

Many (some?) rabbonim have pronounced the reason for the uptick in terror and violence as being due to the Jews who go up to Har Habayit. Maybe, maybe not. I don't buy it, and I don't buy that the appropriate response is to stay away, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I did enjoy hearing the reason as given by Rav Mazuz. He, too, cannot really know what is the cause, but I like the way he shows that what some take as a given isn't necessarily so, and other possibilities make sense as well.

Rav Mazuz said that there is no prohibition against going up to Har Habayit nowadays. Rather, Rav Mazuz said, the attacks are more directly connected to shmitta. Rav Mazuz points out that the intifadas all came at the conclusion of a shmitta year. While he says he does not know what the connection is between shmitta and intifadas, he does suggest that it might be because for a year we bought "yevul nochri" - we bought all our produce from the Palestinians, they got rich off us and they went a little crazy.

Rav Mazuz defended those who go up to Har Habayit sayign they are careful to go where it is ok, where there is no kareis, and they prepare properly with proper tvilla. The only problems are:
1. maybe allowing people to go will leave an opening for some people to go without preparing properly and to the wrong places
2. the Arabs might see a Jew with a siddur and claim he is inciting them. We live in a crazy generation.
source: Srugim

Blaming it on the purchase of yevul nochri is turning it all around. At least he says he does nto know and only that he sees a more regular connection between intifadas and shmitta, but not that this is definitely the cause.




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Nov 25, 2007

Shmitta: where do the veggies really come from?

A couple of weeks ago I wrote about Yevul Nochri (Arab produce) being used as the most popular method of avoiding kedushas shviis vegetables and as a solution for eating veggies throughout the shmitta year, even after the issur of sefichin begins.

One of the problems I mentioned with yevul nochri is that you never really know where the vegetables are coming from. While most of them might actually be Arab produce, there is a minority of such produce that originated as Jewish produce and was sold through the Arabs as a way of getting these veggies onto the market. So if you buy Arab produce, you might actually be buying Jewish produce without realizing it.

In this week's Mishpacha newspaper (Hebrew), there was a report of another, albeit similar, problem with Yevul Nochri. The hechsher organizations are finding this problem, yet are saying they are not responsible for it and have not (yet) presented any solutions.

The problem is this; There are many areas in Israel whose halachic status in regards to shmitta is in question and under debate. Is the halachic border of Holiness of the Land over here or 2 kilometers further west or east or north, etc. There are many opinions on the matter, many of them are in the "Arava" region. The Arava has sections that halachically do not have kedusha and growing crops in those areas has been a solution (albeit limited). However, there are many debates as to the exact borders and some might hold this border is halachic and therefore produce grown in that area is ok for shmitta, while others might say that is still halachic Israel and problematic for shmitta.

There are large parcels of land that remain a safek if they are Eretz Yisrael, even land going into parts of Jordan.

The basic accepted opinion has generally been that if the Hazon Ish who defines what he considers the actual halachic borders. Though other opinions still argue.

It has been found, that the farmers/marketers/wholesalers have been marking produce grown in questionable areas as being produce from "abroad" (and thereby being free of any shmitta issues).

They have found that many veggies grown in these questionable areas, are being sold as Yevul Chu"l (veggies from abroad), despite their really coming from areas that might actually be Eretz Yisrael and if they are grown by Jews in these areas (as they often are), that would make these veggies prohibited from being eaten.

It turns out that the fruit and veggie guy is basically deciding halacha for you and telling you you can eat something that there is a good chance is assur.

One proposed solution is to mark every item (veggies) in the store with the exact location it came from, rather than the general term of "chu"l" and letting the consumer decide (with the psak of his own rav if necessary) whether he considers that location as part of kedushas Israel or not.

The problem with this is that it is up to the veggie guy to make the signs and mark his produce and not the hechsher. they have no control over that. So far they have not marked the veggies so specifically noting the actual source of the veggies.

So, if you eat Yevul Nochri, do you actually know that your veggies are shmitta free? Do you know if they are even allowed to be eaten?

Maybe you can still say it is a minority of produce and not something to be concerned about (it is battul b'rov maybe). I do not know, but it still seems yevul nochri is problematic.

I still do not know what I am going to do once the Otzar Beis Din on vegetables stops because of sefichin (within the next couple of weeks)... So far I have bought almost exclusively OBD (and 6th year where possible) produce. In about 2 weeks, this will become a big issue for me and many others.

Nov 7, 2007

Shmitta: Yevul Nochri

Yevul Nochri. Non-Jewish (grown) produce. This really means Arab produce, as that is the only non-Jewish produce sold in Israel (though there is a very minute amount of imported produce from Europe and Asia).

Because Jews have to make their fields hefker for the shmitta year, and Jews are not allowed to work the fields and do business with produce grown in shmitta, the kashrus organizations have found a workaround. This is the workaround that is the most prevalent in the Haredi communities, and is also found in other areas though not as prevalent. The workaround is to buy produce grown by Arabs.

This works because Arabs do not have a mitzva of keeping shmitta. they can work the land this year as they do any other year, and they can do business with the produce they grow.

If you do not keep Hetter Mechira, this is the only other solution to attaining vegetables during the shmitta year (other than OBD which I am not including here because the time period of OBD is short (finishing over the next couple of weeks) and the availability is severely limited not rendering it feasible for the masses) is to use Yevul Nochri/Arab Produce.

There is some debate as to whether Arab produce grown in (halchik) Israel has kedusha or not. The ramification of this debate is whether you can eat veggies like in any other year, throwing out the peels, letting your kid mash his tomato all over his hair, smear mashed potatoes all over the floor, etc. or whether such produce needs to be treated with holiness, similar to the way OBD produce is treated.

The debate is based on a larger question of whether an Arab (or any non-Jew) has the ability to remove the kedusha of the land simply by purchasing a tract.

The common custom is known as Minhag Yerushalayim, considers Arab produce to not retain any holiness. So according to that you can let your kids go to the annual tomato fight in Tel Aviv (I think) using Arab grown tomatoes.

The opposing opinion is known as Minhag Bnei Brak. The Chazon Ish decided that Arab produce does retain its holiness and must be treated respectfully. Most people in Bnei Brak follow this custom.

As true of many chumros, the stricter custom of Bnei Brak has begun to spread among the Haredi public of other areas. Even though other places always kept the custom of Jerusalem on this issue, we are finding this shmitta year that many are accepting upon themselves the custom of Bnei Brak.

In my community, the various Rabbis have all told their congregations that they do not need to treat such produce with holiness, as per the custom of Jerusalem. There is one Rabbi of a large congregation however who told his congregation to be machmir and treat it with kedusha. Along with that there are individuals who decided to be machmir.

Many are against using Arab produce for various reasons. Probably the most common reason is the nationalist aspect. People do not want to buy Arab produce because doing so "supports the terrorists". If you buy Arab grown cucumbers (for example), your money is going into the pockets of an Arab. Often that money will end up in part by the PA (taxes) and inadvertently, if not directly, will end up being used (in all likelihood) by terrorists to by guns and ammo which will likely be used against fellow Jews. So the thinking goes, if you buy Arab produce you are supporting terrorists.

Another reason people are against Arab produce is a more halachik based reason. You never really know where the produce is coming from. Arab produce is, for unknown reasons, very expensive. Basic items that normally sell for 2-3 NIS per kilo are selling for anywhere between 7 and 10 NIS per kilo.

That means that a farmer selling his produce elsewhere for 3 NIS per kilo goes into a Haredi supermarket and see the same veggies selling for 10 NIS a kilo. he then has to figure out how he can charge so much.

Often, and it does happen often, the farmers will go to the Arabs and sneak it into the Jewish consumers via the Arab (sometimes they are caught and more often they are not). He will sell it to the Arab who will then pass it off as his own. Now the Jewish farmer is selling in Jerusalem for 10 NIS per kilo the same cucumbers he was charging 3 NIS for in Tel Aviv. Much more profit.

In addition, the farmer often has his market limited. Maybe he sells Hetter Mechira produce and the Haredim will not buy from him. Maybe he has no kashrut at all because he does not follow the shmitta laws, and demand for his produce is even more limited. Selling it off through an Arab as if it is Arab produce allows him to pass off his produce when he would otherwise have a very difficult time finding buyers. (And he gets a lot of profit because of the high prices).

These two problems are very serious because when it happens, the buyer is inadvertently eating produce that is for all intents and purposes, not kosher.

So some people avoid it for these reasons - if you buy Arab produce there is a reasonable chance it is not kosher at all.

Another reason not to buy Arab produce is the issue of ownership. It is extremely difficult to determine who is the rightful owner of a piece of property in Israel. Land has to be registered in Taboo and often that land is not registered correctly, making it difficult to determine who really is the owner. Sometimes the Jewish owner will take on or already have an Arab partner and they will just say the land is owned by the Arab, even if it really is not. Sometimes there are pieces of land that were owned by Jews over the years and due to the restrictions on the Jews Arabs squatted on the lands (pre-State) taking ownership. Then they might technically own the land in question but halachically that might still be considered as owned by a Jew.

In any of these examples, and there are more, if the land is secretly (or without even being known) owned by a Jew, all that produce is considered not-kosher.

Others simply say it is Arab produce and the kashrut organization certifying it has to deal with those issues. If they say it is fine, that is fine by me. This is an attitude people (including myself) use regarding any kashrut issue - it has a hechsher and the mashgiach has to deal with those issues, not me..

There is another issue - health. Some people say that eating yevul nochri is dangerous. They say the Arabs use lower quality materials - manure, sprays, water, sewage, whatever. I do not believe this to be true, even if it is a bit lesser quality than jewish produce (I do not know if it is or is not, but even if it is that does not mean they use sewage instead of water and it does nott mean it is dangerous to consume).

I suspect that such accusations are baseless and are more similar to the blood libels we Jews were always accused of, such as poisoning the wells, causing the Plague, spreading AIDS among the Palestinians..etc.

I know some people claim that last shmitta they know people who got Hepatitis or other diseases from eating Arab produce that had been grown with sewage. I do not know how they can be so sure of what the source for the illness was.

I know plenty of people who eat Arab produce exclusively and they are as healthy (or unhealthy) as always. So, personally, I would discount this accusation.

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