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Nov 6, 2007
interesting psak from Rav Chaim Kanievsky
This past week's Mishpacha newspaper (Hebrew) had another interesting psak from rav Kanievsky.
Rav Kanievsky is a big supporter of using generators for electricity on shabbos rather than regular electricity. This chumroh (some say basic din) has become fairly popular among the yeshivish public over the past five years. It has become popular despite the great expense involved in hooking up a generator.
An avreich who lives in Ramat Gan came to Rav Kanievsky. Because he lives in Ramat Gan and not in Bnei Brak (the two towns border each other), he does not have the ability to join a generator, as Ramat Gan is not a charedi neighborhood, and he is too far from Bnei Brak to be hooked up to theirs.
The only option remaining for this avreich to have mehadrin electricity for shabbos would be to hook up his own personal generator, or a powerful battery pack.
The problem with this is the expense. Doing this would require this avreich to go into great debt, as he cannot afford it.
The avreich asked Rav Kanievsky what he should do - should he go into debt in order to apply this chumroh?
he asked Rav Kanievsky because he knows Rav Kanievsky is a great supporter of using generators on shabbos, but on the other hand he also knows Rav Kanievsky to be very against people going into debt.
Rav Kanievsky paskened that to attain kosher electricity for shabbos it is worth going into debt. Rav Kanievsky said it falls into the category of "Borrow for me and I will pay you back" (if you borrow money to honor the shabbos, the money will be repaid back - Hashem will find a way to send you money to cover it).
I do not know why Rav Kanievsky did not tell him to move to Bnei Brak where he would not have such a great expense as there is already a generator there. Maybe the rent is too high so it would make his debt even worse....
Rav Kanievsky is a big supporter of using generators for electricity on shabbos rather than regular electricity. This chumroh (some say basic din) has become fairly popular among the yeshivish public over the past five years. It has become popular despite the great expense involved in hooking up a generator.
An avreich who lives in Ramat Gan came to Rav Kanievsky. Because he lives in Ramat Gan and not in Bnei Brak (the two towns border each other), he does not have the ability to join a generator, as Ramat Gan is not a charedi neighborhood, and he is too far from Bnei Brak to be hooked up to theirs.
The only option remaining for this avreich to have mehadrin electricity for shabbos would be to hook up his own personal generator, or a powerful battery pack.
The problem with this is the expense. Doing this would require this avreich to go into great debt, as he cannot afford it.
The avreich asked Rav Kanievsky what he should do - should he go into debt in order to apply this chumroh?
he asked Rav Kanievsky because he knows Rav Kanievsky is a great supporter of using generators on shabbos, but on the other hand he also knows Rav Kanievsky to be very against people going into debt.
Rav Kanievsky paskened that to attain kosher electricity for shabbos it is worth going into debt. Rav Kanievsky said it falls into the category of "Borrow for me and I will pay you back" (if you borrow money to honor the shabbos, the money will be repaid back - Hashem will find a way to send you money to cover it).
I do not know why Rav Kanievsky did not tell him to move to Bnei Brak where he would not have such a great expense as there is already a generator there. Maybe the rent is too high so it would make his debt even worse....
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when I was younger and still learning full time in Yeshivah there was joke that if you had a dial a kula number and a chumrah number everyone would call for the chumra. If one does not want to use electricity on shabbos that is fine who says he has to use the generator let him see in the dark. It is just like one does not want to use heter mechira that does does mean he has to use arab produce he can eat other things or eat frozen or canned vegetables. Isaw that in the Mishpacha and was very disappointed. I thought that everything in the electric company is practically all automated and soon in addition they are suppose to only employ non jews on Shabbos.
ReplyDeleteWhat does Rav Kanievsky have to say about going into debt to marry off children?
ReplyDeleteWho cares what it costs? They don't pay for it anyway. Those who work do.
ReplyDeleteanon - interesting thought. when I was in Yeshiva I knew someone who did not want to use electricity. There was no generator so he used the kerosene lanterns for Friday night. Shabbos day was not a problem because of daylight, but seudat shlishit I remember eating in the dark (I had been by his house for shabbos).
ReplyDeleteIf the guy really cannot afford it, I do not know why that is not an option... Friday noght he can use electricity with a kerosene lamp and just sit in the dark for seudat shlishit..
moi - I have no idea..
we pay - hmmmm.... so maybe he wanyed to know if it is ok to be machmir when doing so would require making us pay more.. :-)
Rafi,
ReplyDeleteBy being machmir, it is actually enabling us to give more tzedaka! We should be thankful.
that's a great reason!
ReplyDeleteIt's fine to live without electricity on Shabbat--if you can afford to throw out the contents of your refrigerator each Friday.
ReplyDeleteMiI:
ReplyDeleteIf you keep your fridge closed over shabbos, the stuff should keep pretty well (our fridge once lost power Friday night, and all our food was fine).
moi - I guess you are right - the kerosene lamp only helps for the lights, not for anything else...
ReplyDeleteanon - then what would they eat?
I would like someone to confirm the veracity of the story.
ReplyDelete1. I have a problem with these private and personal piskei halacha, somehow being made public. My guess is that the "telephone" game is at work here.
2. Even if all the facts are true and presented, who cares? This style of psak has been growing and evolving for a while now. just the fact that the generator is nec. shows what direction the halacha world is going. yeah yeah, I say chumra, you say halacha.
So Rabbi Goldmeier with your Semicha, can you enlighten us as to the nitty gritty details on the halacha aspect here?
ReplyDeleteno post about the demonstration in Ramat beit shemesh?
ReplyDeleteI am still undecided as to whether or not to write one
ReplyDeletePlease do as you are my main man on the inside :)
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I also think you should write a post about the demonstration in Bet Shemesh. I'm very curious to see if you agree with me that it was an atrocious and embarrassing waste of energy and time.
ReplyDeleteSecondly - I totally agree with Shaya. Who says this should be a public psak? Maybe he knows the family very well? Maybe the money issue wont be such a big deal.
Furthermore, while i agree with the idea that they don't have to use a generator, show me one modern woman who can go through shabbos without electricity every single week, and I'll show you someone who is probably a time traveller who came from a world some 500 years ago, or else she is Amish ..... get my drift?
hmmmm.. I have gotten a few requests already to write about it.. we shall see. My hesitation is that what I have to say can get me arrested.. :-)
ReplyDeleteanyways, about the psak, I have no idea how it gets into the paper. Maybe they have a connection by one of the assistants of Rav Kanievsky and they ask him every week if anything interesting happened. Maybe they do that By Rav Elyashiv's house and Rav Shteinman's house as well.
Or maybe this guy called the paper (I doubt it).
Should it be kept personal - maybe, but it wasn't. Are there probably details that are missing form the article or even details that are inaccurate, probably just as there are in every article in any newspaper.
I find these psakim interesting because they often show how society acts, how it thinks and develops and how the Rabbonim relate to it. Is it 100% accurate, maybe not but that is what we got.
Should it be kept private? I see no reason why it should be. Rev Mashoe wrote 6-8 (there is debate regarding who wrote the last two volumes) volumes of books detailing various questions people posed to him and the answers he gave them. Many Rabbonim write books detailing questions they were asked. These are topics that can be learned from, both the actual halacha and the way of thought.
Did Rav Kanievsky know the guy? Maybe, but I doubt it. He gets tens of questions a week asked by various people. Probably 100% of them (or very close to it) have no direct connection to him. That is what happens when you are one of the gedolim and poskei ha'dor.