Showing posts with label Gerrer Rebbe. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Gerrer Rebbe. Show all posts
Sep 9, 2019
Gerrer Rebbe has large screen tv installed in Beis Medrash
The Gerrer Rebbe had, for the first time ever, a large screen installed in the beis medrash of Gur.
The screen was installed as part of the preparations for the big Gur wedding tomorrow night of the Gerrer Rebbe's grandson. The screen is so the hassidim can watch the proceedings and see the rebbe do what he does, after experiencing a problem that last Shabbos when the rebbe got an aliya to the torah many could not see him.
The timing seems a bit suspicious to me. We all know the baseball season is winding down with playoffs starting in just a few weeks, and football season is just starting as the NFL is underway with the first week of the new football season this week. I am not suggesting Gur fealty to the Chicago Bears or New England Patriots, or even the New York Yankees, but the timing does seem a bit suspicious..
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| source: Behadrei |
The screen was installed as part of the preparations for the big Gur wedding tomorrow night of the Gerrer Rebbe's grandson. The screen is so the hassidim can watch the proceedings and see the rebbe do what he does, after experiencing a problem that last Shabbos when the rebbe got an aliya to the torah many could not see him.
The timing seems a bit suspicious to me. We all know the baseball season is winding down with playoffs starting in just a few weeks, and football season is just starting as the NFL is underway with the first week of the new football season this week. I am not suggesting Gur fealty to the Chicago Bears or New England Patriots, or even the New York Yankees, but the timing does seem a bit suspicious..
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Labels:
Gerrer Rebbe
Apr 30, 2019
those who don't work cause others to lose their jobs
The Pinizia glass factory in Yerucham has been on the brink of closing for years. Every so oftne they announce the threat of closing and the government comes up with some program to bail them out and save the factory and a couple hundred jobs.
Pinizia is in the news again with an announcement that they are on the brink of closing. I don't know what the real cause is but the Gerrer chassidim are taking credit for it because they have a ban on the factory and won't buy their glass, including wine using bottles made in the Pinizia factory, due to the chilul shabbos in the functioning of the factory. The owners, in the past, have refused to close the factory on Shabbos. A senior director of the factory confirms that they have suffered tremendous losses because of the ban. The owners claim the factory is struggling now through a difficult period, but there is no imminent threat of the factory closing.
I guess time will tell how much damage this boycott does to the factory.
source: Kikar and Kikar and Calcalist and Ynet
Online people are taking this news report and pointing out the irony of a group of people who do not work being the cause of so many people who do work to lose their jobs. Not just online but the director of health services of the town of Yerucham as well said this.
To that I would say, first of all, this is a boycott by the Gerrer chassidim, not the entire haredi public (though some might follow along and it might or could easily take on a life of its own). It happens to be that among haredim in general and among chassidim in particular, the Gerrer sect of chassidim happen to commonly work much more than many of the other groups.
And, second of all, whether they work or do not, they are not obligated to buy their glass from any specific factory and have a right to support issues dear to them. They claim they were and are willing to work with the factory to come to a resolution and continue buying this glass, but Shabbos is dear to them and they do not want to make kiddush on Shabbos using wine bottled in bottles made with chilul shabbos. Just like other people won't support factories that have become sweatshops or use child labor and barely pay their employees or that destroy the rainforests or whatever. These people have the same right to choose to not support a factory that goes against their ideals and hurts what they consider dear to them. Irony aside, these people "who don't work" have no obligation, social or moral or legal, to buy from this specific factory.
Pinizia is in the news again with an announcement that they are on the brink of closing. I don't know what the real cause is but the Gerrer chassidim are taking credit for it because they have a ban on the factory and won't buy their glass, including wine using bottles made in the Pinizia factory, due to the chilul shabbos in the functioning of the factory. The owners, in the past, have refused to close the factory on Shabbos. A senior director of the factory confirms that they have suffered tremendous losses because of the ban. The owners claim the factory is struggling now through a difficult period, but there is no imminent threat of the factory closing.
I guess time will tell how much damage this boycott does to the factory.
source: Kikar and Kikar and Calcalist and Ynet
Online people are taking this news report and pointing out the irony of a group of people who do not work being the cause of so many people who do work to lose their jobs. Not just online but the director of health services of the town of Yerucham as well said this.
To that I would say, first of all, this is a boycott by the Gerrer chassidim, not the entire haredi public (though some might follow along and it might or could easily take on a life of its own). It happens to be that among haredim in general and among chassidim in particular, the Gerrer sect of chassidim happen to commonly work much more than many of the other groups.
And, second of all, whether they work or do not, they are not obligated to buy their glass from any specific factory and have a right to support issues dear to them. They claim they were and are willing to work with the factory to come to a resolution and continue buying this glass, but Shabbos is dear to them and they do not want to make kiddush on Shabbos using wine bottled in bottles made with chilul shabbos. Just like other people won't support factories that have become sweatshops or use child labor and barely pay their employees or that destroy the rainforests or whatever. These people have the same right to choose to not support a factory that goes against their ideals and hurts what they consider dear to them. Irony aside, these people "who don't work" have no obligation, social or moral or legal, to buy from this specific factory.
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Labels:
chassid,
finances,
Gerrer Rebbe,
haredim
Apr 14, 2019
female polling station worker removed from station to let Gerrer Rebbe in
According to a report on Haaretz, tweeted out by the reporter Aron Rabinovitz, and then re-reported in English in the Times of Israel, there was an incident on election day in which the Gerrer Rebbe went to go vote with a group of his chassidim.
Upon arrival, the chassidim noticed that one of the workers in the polling station was a woman working there as an observer on behalf of the Likud. The chassidim decided this would be a problem for the rebbe, as he does not look at women. To solve the problem so that the rebbe would be able to go in and vote, they tried to persuade the woman to leave the polling station for a bit. They even offered her money to do so. When she persisted in her refusal, the chassidim contacted Likud headquarters requesting they remove her so the rebbe can vote. The Likud sent someone to replace her temporarily, ordering her to leave a take a lunch break, and then return after the rebbe would finish his voting.
The explanation given was that no insult was intended - the rebbe has nothing against her personally - , but his request should be honored out of respect, just as a request made by a President or Prime Minister would be honored and respected.
Personally I have no problem accommodating people's needs and requests. My question is what would have happened if someone did the same exact thing from the other perspective - say a secular leader would have requested any haredi poll workers and observers be removed form the polling station so he could vote. Nothing personal, but he normally avoids Haredi people and does not receive them, and his request should be respected just like a request by the President would be respected and honored. Would that have been allowed to pass quietly? I don't think so, nor should such a request be allowed to pass quietly. it is unacceptable. If you don't want to look at other people, don't leave your house and don't go where other people are.
The Gerrer Rebbe recently spent time in the hospital visiting with his sick wife - I have yet to find any report of him asking the hospitals, in Israel and in the USA, to clear out female workers, female doctors, female nurses, from the area he would be in. Perhaps in the case it was not the Gerrer Rebbe behind this but his over-zealous chassidim just assuming that is what he would want - but then it is a failure of him transmitting the proper behavior and tradition to his students.
The Likud should have refused the request, and I am disappointed that they did not. They should have left the decision up to the relevant worker.
Upon arrival, the chassidim noticed that one of the workers in the polling station was a woman working there as an observer on behalf of the Likud. The chassidim decided this would be a problem for the rebbe, as he does not look at women. To solve the problem so that the rebbe would be able to go in and vote, they tried to persuade the woman to leave the polling station for a bit. They even offered her money to do so. When she persisted in her refusal, the chassidim contacted Likud headquarters requesting they remove her so the rebbe can vote. The Likud sent someone to replace her temporarily, ordering her to leave a take a lunch break, and then return after the rebbe would finish his voting.
The explanation given was that no insult was intended - the rebbe has nothing against her personally - , but his request should be honored out of respect, just as a request made by a President or Prime Minister would be honored and respected.
Personally I have no problem accommodating people's needs and requests. My question is what would have happened if someone did the same exact thing from the other perspective - say a secular leader would have requested any haredi poll workers and observers be removed form the polling station so he could vote. Nothing personal, but he normally avoids Haredi people and does not receive them, and his request should be respected just like a request by the President would be respected and honored. Would that have been allowed to pass quietly? I don't think so, nor should such a request be allowed to pass quietly. it is unacceptable. If you don't want to look at other people, don't leave your house and don't go where other people are.
The Gerrer Rebbe recently spent time in the hospital visiting with his sick wife - I have yet to find any report of him asking the hospitals, in Israel and in the USA, to clear out female workers, female doctors, female nurses, from the area he would be in. Perhaps in the case it was not the Gerrer Rebbe behind this but his over-zealous chassidim just assuming that is what he would want - but then it is a failure of him transmitting the proper behavior and tradition to his students.
The Likud should have refused the request, and I am disappointed that they did not. They should have left the decision up to the relevant worker.
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Labels:
Gerrer Rebbe,
women
Jul 11, 2018
but at least I don't have a cellphone!
I find this story a little bit humorous, as an outsider, as sad as the situation might be.
A case has come before the courts about a yeshiva trying to throw a boy out of yeshiva but the boy being unwilling to leave. The yeshiva administration is trying to get a restraining order against this young man that would force him to keep a distance from the yeshiva.
So what did this fellow do that the yeshiva so desperately wants him gone?
According to the director of the yeshiva, associated with the Gur chassidus, this young man has basically wrought destruction upon the yeshiva. He has started fires, he has destroyed property, he has leveled threats of physical violence against people. According to the director, this young man has caused over 120,000nis worth of damage to the yeshiva plus damage to the yeshiva's reputation and good name.
According to the director this has been going on for a while. They have given him many chances, as per his requests and begging, they've tried to go to beis din, they've tried many things and now it is time to throw him out of yeshiva.
The young man's lawyer presented his client's case saying the young man is willing to leave, but only if the Admor of Gur says so - he wants the Admor to hear the case and make a decision as to what should happen. The director of the yeshiva has thus far refused to involve the Admor saying he has thousands of chassidim, is elderly, and cant get involved in such matters.
The young man's claim to stay is that he follows the rules, the takanon, of the chassidus, to the letter. he does not have a cellphone, he does not go to swimming pools, and does not work on the side. These rules, he claims, are of supreme importance to the Rebbe, and his adherence to them should protect him.
the court has thus far rejected the request for a restraining order and is hearing the arguments.
source: Kikar
Far be it from me to say whether this young man should be allowed to stay in yeshiva or to be forced out. That is them to work out. While normally it would, I think, require extreme situations, it is possible this has gotten to that point. I am not sure why in a chassidus with so many rules, they cannot have rules or instructions as to how to deal with such situations, and if they really do not, perhaps they should sit with the Admor and work out the situation and rules for similar situations in the future.
Anyways, throwing the young man out of yeshiva might be necessary from the perspective of the yeshiva, he really needs to get help and learn to deal with his violent tendencies or anger or whatever it is that is causing his behavior. I hope they don't just toss him to the curb but give him some direction, help him find the right place that will help him grow and deal with his problems.
A case has come before the courts about a yeshiva trying to throw a boy out of yeshiva but the boy being unwilling to leave. The yeshiva administration is trying to get a restraining order against this young man that would force him to keep a distance from the yeshiva.
So what did this fellow do that the yeshiva so desperately wants him gone?
According to the director of the yeshiva, associated with the Gur chassidus, this young man has basically wrought destruction upon the yeshiva. He has started fires, he has destroyed property, he has leveled threats of physical violence against people. According to the director, this young man has caused over 120,000nis worth of damage to the yeshiva plus damage to the yeshiva's reputation and good name.
According to the director this has been going on for a while. They have given him many chances, as per his requests and begging, they've tried to go to beis din, they've tried many things and now it is time to throw him out of yeshiva.
The young man's lawyer presented his client's case saying the young man is willing to leave, but only if the Admor of Gur says so - he wants the Admor to hear the case and make a decision as to what should happen. The director of the yeshiva has thus far refused to involve the Admor saying he has thousands of chassidim, is elderly, and cant get involved in such matters.
The young man's claim to stay is that he follows the rules, the takanon, of the chassidus, to the letter. he does not have a cellphone, he does not go to swimming pools, and does not work on the side. These rules, he claims, are of supreme importance to the Rebbe, and his adherence to them should protect him.
the court has thus far rejected the request for a restraining order and is hearing the arguments.
source: Kikar
Far be it from me to say whether this young man should be allowed to stay in yeshiva or to be forced out. That is them to work out. While normally it would, I think, require extreme situations, it is possible this has gotten to that point. I am not sure why in a chassidus with so many rules, they cannot have rules or instructions as to how to deal with such situations, and if they really do not, perhaps they should sit with the Admor and work out the situation and rules for similar situations in the future.
Anyways, throwing the young man out of yeshiva might be necessary from the perspective of the yeshiva, he really needs to get help and learn to deal with his violent tendencies or anger or whatever it is that is causing his behavior. I hope they don't just toss him to the curb but give him some direction, help him find the right place that will help him grow and deal with his problems.
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Labels:
Gerrer Rebbe,
Gur,
violence
Feb 20, 2017
when a cultural difference says you can ignore psak
the gedolim of Eretz Yisrael have come out many times with statements that concerts and the like are prohibited, even with separate seating and even if the event is only for men.
Kikar reports about a "dinner" on behalf of the Gerrer institutions of Eretz Yisrael set to take place in the USA next week with the main attraction being a performance by Mordechai Ben David, along with some other performers.
Now, they could have explained it away saying that the Gerrer Rebbe never signed on any ban or prohibition but that would not be true as he did sign on such a ban a number of years ago...
So, with the Gerrer Rebbe against such performances (arvei Shira and the like), why is it ok for the Gur institutions to hold such an event with such a performance?
The answer given by the relevant askanim is that the culture in the USA is different so it is ok (even though it is on behalf of the Israeli institutions.
Sounds good to me. Whenever there is a self-defined cultural difference we are now able to ignore the psak of the gedolim and even our own rebbe... many people have said similarly in the past - that a given psak isn't relevant because of x, y or z differences - but now the response has the hechsher of one of the gedolim saying my psak can be ignored for those reasons.
Kikar reports about a "dinner" on behalf of the Gerrer institutions of Eretz Yisrael set to take place in the USA next week with the main attraction being a performance by Mordechai Ben David, along with some other performers.
Now, they could have explained it away saying that the Gerrer Rebbe never signed on any ban or prohibition but that would not be true as he did sign on such a ban a number of years ago...
So, with the Gerrer Rebbe against such performances (arvei Shira and the like), why is it ok for the Gur institutions to hold such an event with such a performance?
The answer given by the relevant askanim is that the culture in the USA is different so it is ok (even though it is on behalf of the Israeli institutions.
Sounds good to me. Whenever there is a self-defined cultural difference we are now able to ignore the psak of the gedolim and even our own rebbe... many people have said similarly in the past - that a given psak isn't relevant because of x, y or z differences - but now the response has the hechsher of one of the gedolim saying my psak can be ignored for those reasons.
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Labels:
culture,
gedolim,
Gerrer Rebbe,
MBD
Jan 16, 2017
Gerrer Hassidim thank God for the State of Israel
There has been a fight going on in the southern city of Arad between the secular residents and the community of Gur chassidim. Without getting into the details, because from afar it just seems to be the standard fight of secular residents not wanting the growing charedi community to continue moving in, the basic animosity has now turned into some fight being waged on signs around the city.
The Gerrer chassidim, not using social media or other digital forms of communal discussion, have been posting signs up around town to encourage a more religious environment - signs that say things like "In Arad people eat kosher" and "the children of Arad wear kippot".
the secular residents turned to the courts to have the signs removed. The Gur representatives argued that these are political signs in nature and they have their political discussion via wall signs rather than using social media. The judge sympathized with the argument, but chose to reject it anyway and order the signs to be removed. An appeal to the Supreme Court by Gur to have the signs allowed failed and the municipality of Arad was given legal permission to remove the signs.
This is just a stage in the fight, as Gur says their coming signs will have clear political messages and will reveal clearly what is actually happening in Arad, who is stealing from city coffers, who is mistreating the children of Arad, and more.
In the meantime, the Gerrer chassidim put up one last sign and left it up for just a brief amount of time before removing it due to removal orders,
This last sign is the interesting one in this fight..
The sign reads "We thank God every single day, and not just on Yom Haatzmaut, for giving us the State of Israel"
source: Behadrei
Revolutionary.
forgetting about the fight.... they publicly declare thanking God for the State of Israel. They did not say "eretz yisrael", but "medinat yisrael". they used blue and white colors on the sign with a picture of the flag of Israel.
I dont know if it signifies anything specific, and it might just have been a strategic move and a tactic in their plan, but I find it surprising and interesting that they would make such a Zionistic statement...
The Gerrer chassidim, not using social media or other digital forms of communal discussion, have been posting signs up around town to encourage a more religious environment - signs that say things like "In Arad people eat kosher" and "the children of Arad wear kippot".
the secular residents turned to the courts to have the signs removed. The Gur representatives argued that these are political signs in nature and they have their political discussion via wall signs rather than using social media. The judge sympathized with the argument, but chose to reject it anyway and order the signs to be removed. An appeal to the Supreme Court by Gur to have the signs allowed failed and the municipality of Arad was given legal permission to remove the signs.
This is just a stage in the fight, as Gur says their coming signs will have clear political messages and will reveal clearly what is actually happening in Arad, who is stealing from city coffers, who is mistreating the children of Arad, and more.
In the meantime, the Gerrer chassidim put up one last sign and left it up for just a brief amount of time before removing it due to removal orders,
This last sign is the interesting one in this fight..
The sign reads "We thank God every single day, and not just on Yom Haatzmaut, for giving us the State of Israel"
source: Behadrei
Revolutionary.
forgetting about the fight.... they publicly declare thanking God for the State of Israel. They did not say "eretz yisrael", but "medinat yisrael". they used blue and white colors on the sign with a picture of the flag of Israel.
I dont know if it signifies anything specific, and it might just have been a strategic move and a tactic in their plan, but I find it surprising and interesting that they would make such a Zionistic statement...
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Labels:
chassid,
Gerrer Rebbe,
zionist
May 16, 2016
Gur chassidim rebel against new technology regulations
This is unusual. Especially for chassidim. But maybe this is a real sign of the decrees regarding internet usage and smartphones being "gzeiros she'ein hatzibbur yecholin laamod bahel" - decrees that the public cannot adhere to.
In the chassidic community of Gur they recently held a technology conference where a series of decrees were announced regulating the use of smartphones, internet, Whatsapp and more.
The new regulations were pretty strict, limiting which mobile provider could be used, who could get a kosher smartphone, who can communicate via whatsapp and with whom (only non-Jews), etc.
And, it turns out, a significant number of chassidim have decided that they will not follow the new rules.
According to Behadrei, a number of Gur shuls, a couple in Bnei Braq and another in Ashdod, have been closed because the people davening in those shuls have refused to follow the rules.
Chassim not listening to the rules imposed by the chassidus, in such a public way?? This is something extremely rare and points to a major showdown. Will the chassidus place extreme pressure on them and force them to comply, or will they rethink the level of their regulations and maybe lighten up a bit?
In the chassidic community of Gur they recently held a technology conference where a series of decrees were announced regulating the use of smartphones, internet, Whatsapp and more.
The new regulations were pretty strict, limiting which mobile provider could be used, who could get a kosher smartphone, who can communicate via whatsapp and with whom (only non-Jews), etc.
And, it turns out, a significant number of chassidim have decided that they will not follow the new rules.
According to Behadrei, a number of Gur shuls, a couple in Bnei Braq and another in Ashdod, have been closed because the people davening in those shuls have refused to follow the rules.
Chassim not listening to the rules imposed by the chassidus, in such a public way?? This is something extremely rare and points to a major showdown. Will the chassidus place extreme pressure on them and force them to comply, or will they rethink the level of their regulations and maybe lighten up a bit?
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Aug 12, 2013
A mystical cat is forgiven
A mysterious cat appeared yesterday in the beis medrash of Yeshivat HaMekubalim, headed by Rav Dovid Batzri, in Jerusalem.
It wandered in and then made itself comfortable on the "Kisei shel Eliyahu" at the front of the beis medrash, and it snuggled up against a sefer that was on the chair - a volume of Yalkut Yosef, written by the Chief Rabbi of Israel Yitzchak Yosef.
After a number of failed attempts to chase it out, one of the avreichim approached the cat and said 3 times "you are forgiven". The cat then left the beis medrash.
Avreichim said this "warning sign" happened because the yeshiva recently decided to shut the beis medrash at 10 PM every night, due to a shortage of funds, causing much bittul torah.
(source: Kooker)
Usually such stories are attributed to the animal being a reincarnation that needed forgiveness for a previous sin or failing. They took it to indicate a shortage in their learning hours due to the beis medrash being closed at night earlier than before.
I would guess that the cat left the yeshiva and made its way over to the Gerrer yeshiva beis medrash. It was announced yesterday that the Gerrer Rebbe and his advisers have decided to shut the beis medrash at 9:30 PM now so that the students will not stay up too late learning and will instead get a good nights sleep. Good move or not, I do not know, but I am impressed that they think the only reason students stay up late at night is for learning, and not talking in the dorm or hanging out, reading or whatever...
It wandered in and then made itself comfortable on the "Kisei shel Eliyahu" at the front of the beis medrash, and it snuggled up against a sefer that was on the chair - a volume of Yalkut Yosef, written by the Chief Rabbi of Israel Yitzchak Yosef.After a number of failed attempts to chase it out, one of the avreichim approached the cat and said 3 times "you are forgiven". The cat then left the beis medrash.
Avreichim said this "warning sign" happened because the yeshiva recently decided to shut the beis medrash at 10 PM every night, due to a shortage of funds, causing much bittul torah.
(source: Kooker)
Usually such stories are attributed to the animal being a reincarnation that needed forgiveness for a previous sin or failing. They took it to indicate a shortage in their learning hours due to the beis medrash being closed at night earlier than before.
I would guess that the cat left the yeshiva and made its way over to the Gerrer yeshiva beis medrash. It was announced yesterday that the Gerrer Rebbe and his advisers have decided to shut the beis medrash at 9:30 PM now so that the students will not stay up too late learning and will instead get a good nights sleep. Good move or not, I do not know, but I am impressed that they think the only reason students stay up late at night is for learning, and not talking in the dorm or hanging out, reading or whatever...
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Labels:
Gerrer Rebbe,
kabbala,
yeshiva
Jun 7, 2010
Gerrer Hassid loses bid to run Bank Leumi
Better luck next time.
Yosef Mozeson, the Gerrer Hassid running to be appointed as new director of Bank Leumi, lost in his bid for the job, and in his bid to join the board.
The board voted on the 5 new positions, and Mozeson did not make the cut.
Before the vote, Mozeson presented his final attempt to the board when he said, "Since until now I was busy with my personal business dealings, and not with public companies, I have not been able to present a long list of public positions like the other candidates were able to...
With the grace of heaven I merited great success in my personal business dealigns. Now I wish to be appointed to the "directorion" of Bank Leumi. I hope the shareholders will choose me, and I will be able to integrate into the running of the bank, together with the current directors and the new appointees that will soon be chosen who are all well known in their abilities."
Oh well.
Yosef Mozeson, the Gerrer Hassid running to be appointed as new director of Bank Leumi, lost in his bid for the job, and in his bid to join the board.
The board voted on the 5 new positions, and Mozeson did not make the cut.
Before the vote, Mozeson presented his final attempt to the board when he said, "Since until now I was busy with my personal business dealings, and not with public companies, I have not been able to present a long list of public positions like the other candidates were able to...
With the grace of heaven I merited great success in my personal business dealigns. Now I wish to be appointed to the "directorion" of Bank Leumi. I hope the shareholders will choose me, and I will be able to integrate into the running of the bank, together with the current directors and the new appointees that will soon be chosen who are all well known in their abilities."
Oh well.
Labels:
banks,
Gerrer Rebbe
Nov 11, 2008
Why I do not feel obligated to vote UTJ
In the comments of a recent post, I was asked the following question:
Now I can understand the people out there who take absolutely no heed of the Rabbanim or Gedolim on any issues, why should they start now by the elections? But I know both of you guys to be G-d fearing jews. Doesn't HaRav Steinman even move you by 1%??? So many Rabbanim and Gedolim have instructed to vote for Abutbul. And you yourself aren't that against it either. You just prefer Lerner. Why wouldn't you want to make a Kiddush Hashem and be mekayem a mitzva of listening to the Gedolim to boot?
(Don't answer that RCM supports them all cos we all know his approach is closer to abstaining than to endorsing everyone!)
I am not writing to try to recruit votes for Abutbul. I am just genuinely baffled.
The following is my answer:
I am not a talmid of Rav Steinman, and to me he is just as much a gadol as the Gerrer Rebbe who says to vote Lerner.
I am following Rav Malinowitz's opinion, that if I was a talmid of Rav Steinman I would be obligated to listen to him. Since I am not, as a matter of fact he has never said two words to me nor I to him, I am not obligated to listen. Rav Malinowitz's "psak" was for his kehilla that we are intelligent enough to make our own decision.
Being that I can make my own decision, you ask why I do not conduct myself like Rav Steinman says to? I say why choose him? Why not choose the Gerrer Rebbe?
I did not make my decision based on the Gerrer Rebbe's opinion, but I see no reason to choose Rav Steinman's opinion over his.
So I ask you, and I do not know who you are and maybe you are a talmid of Rav Steinman, but assuming you are not, why do you choose to follow him?
Another point I would make is that UTJ MK Moshe Gafni has said numerous times that his goal is to protect and fight for the yeshivas. Once a person leaves yeshiva, there are others he can turn to (he said it at least once in response to a question why he did not support a bill that would have helped haredi baalei batim with lower taxes - though I do not remember the details of the bill, and I heard him say it in regards to other things as well - another example had to do with post-yeshiva Haredim in the army) for that help. Degel's job is to help the yeshivas, that's it. Once you leave yeshiva, you are lower priority for Degel.
That is perfectly legitimate in my opinion. They want to prioritize their work for one specific sector.
No problem. But don't expect me to automatically vote for you. I am not in yeshiva anymore. Unfortunately perhaps, but that is the reality. I find supporting yeshivas to be a very great endeavor. But I am not in yeshiva. I work for a living and have a [large] family, and I have personal concerns, and communal concerns that for me take priority over yeshivas.
So if Gafni says he does not need to work for me, then I have no need to follow him, and vote according to his wishes..
Oh yeah, one more thing - did you know that Greenberg is Gafni's parliamentary assistant? Did you know that Montag is his nephew? Do you really think the gedolim choose (as if they were actually involved in the process) the best reps for the haredi public or perhaps they just choose those that are the best connected?
Not that they are bad reps. Perhaps they have become great reps.
another thing, look at Beitar as an example.
the degel branch there recently had internal voting to decide who would be higher up on the list and get the Deputy Mayor position. The two candidates were a guy named Yossi Shitreet, and a guy named Yitzchak Ravitz. Yes, Ravitz is the son of the Degel MK.
Turns out Ravitz surprisingly lost to Shitreet, and MK Ravitz is fighting to get Shitreet thrown otu because Degel is an Ashkenazy party and a sfardi shold not be there. He should be in Shas.
So as long as he was just a voter, and a shlepper, it was ok for him to be in Degel. As soon as he beat out the "son of" for the paying job in city hall, then all of the sudden there is no room for him.
I dont know if Ravitz won, or will win, his fight or not, but even if he loses it, he will just move his son to another city where he can put him at the head of Degel there.
Degel HaTorah is a family business. I am not family, so I do not feel beholden to them.
I have no problem with Degel being a family business. I just feel no obligation to vote for them. If I do vote for them, it is because they earned it. And because it is a family business, I do not consider it a mitzva of any sort to vote for them or for their recommendation for mayor.
If I feel like voting for them because I like certain things they do, I will vote for them. If not, not. If I wish to follow their recommendation for mayor, I will. If not, not. I am open to them just as I am open to every other party, as per my needs and concerns.
If I need to buy something, and there are two stores that sell it. For whatever reason I ask my rav which store I should go to. He tells me one of them. I find out that his wife or son-in-law own that store. So is it a mitzva to shop there now. I think because the store is owned by his relative, it is no longer a mitzva, and the psak is tainted with conflict of interest. I might still choose to buy the item there, because perhaps they give better service, or maybe they sell it with a bigger smile, or they'll give me a discount or whatever other reason there might be. But it will not be a mitzva. This is how I look at the relationship between Degel and the rabbonim.
Another thing - Do you know how many stories I have heard of Haredi baalei Batim who can't get their kids into schools? Do Gimmel people help? no. often, and I am aware of cases, where it is the gimmel askanim who were the cause for them being rejected, claiming they are not frum enough.
Now those same askanim have the chutzpah to call these people and demand that they vote gimmel.
So again - if I want to vote Gimmel because I admire their work and think they do important stuff, more so than other parties, I will vote for them. If not, not. I will not vote for them just because of social obligations, or because I am bullied into it. if I vote for them it is because I want to.
And the same goes for mayor. i will choose for whom I want to vote. I feel beholden to nobody, and I have no need to listen to anybody else's opinion on who I should vote for. Nobody has a right to demand my vote. Tell me your guy's qualities and platform, and maybe I will be convinced. But nobody has a right to demand my vote.
Now I can understand the people out there who take absolutely no heed of the Rabbanim or Gedolim on any issues, why should they start now by the elections? But I know both of you guys to be G-d fearing jews. Doesn't HaRav Steinman even move you by 1%??? So many Rabbanim and Gedolim have instructed to vote for Abutbul. And you yourself aren't that against it either. You just prefer Lerner. Why wouldn't you want to make a Kiddush Hashem and be mekayem a mitzva of listening to the Gedolim to boot?
(Don't answer that RCM supports them all cos we all know his approach is closer to abstaining than to endorsing everyone!)
I am not writing to try to recruit votes for Abutbul. I am just genuinely baffled.
The following is my answer:
I am not a talmid of Rav Steinman, and to me he is just as much a gadol as the Gerrer Rebbe who says to vote Lerner.
I am following Rav Malinowitz's opinion, that if I was a talmid of Rav Steinman I would be obligated to listen to him. Since I am not, as a matter of fact he has never said two words to me nor I to him, I am not obligated to listen. Rav Malinowitz's "psak" was for his kehilla that we are intelligent enough to make our own decision.
Being that I can make my own decision, you ask why I do not conduct myself like Rav Steinman says to? I say why choose him? Why not choose the Gerrer Rebbe?
I did not make my decision based on the Gerrer Rebbe's opinion, but I see no reason to choose Rav Steinman's opinion over his.
So I ask you, and I do not know who you are and maybe you are a talmid of Rav Steinman, but assuming you are not, why do you choose to follow him?
Another point I would make is that UTJ MK Moshe Gafni has said numerous times that his goal is to protect and fight for the yeshivas. Once a person leaves yeshiva, there are others he can turn to (he said it at least once in response to a question why he did not support a bill that would have helped haredi baalei batim with lower taxes - though I do not remember the details of the bill, and I heard him say it in regards to other things as well - another example had to do with post-yeshiva Haredim in the army) for that help. Degel's job is to help the yeshivas, that's it. Once you leave yeshiva, you are lower priority for Degel.
That is perfectly legitimate in my opinion. They want to prioritize their work for one specific sector.
No problem. But don't expect me to automatically vote for you. I am not in yeshiva anymore. Unfortunately perhaps, but that is the reality. I find supporting yeshivas to be a very great endeavor. But I am not in yeshiva. I work for a living and have a [large] family, and I have personal concerns, and communal concerns that for me take priority over yeshivas.
So if Gafni says he does not need to work for me, then I have no need to follow him, and vote according to his wishes..
Oh yeah, one more thing - did you know that Greenberg is Gafni's parliamentary assistant? Did you know that Montag is his nephew? Do you really think the gedolim choose (as if they were actually involved in the process) the best reps for the haredi public or perhaps they just choose those that are the best connected?
Not that they are bad reps. Perhaps they have become great reps.
another thing, look at Beitar as an example.
the degel branch there recently had internal voting to decide who would be higher up on the list and get the Deputy Mayor position. The two candidates were a guy named Yossi Shitreet, and a guy named Yitzchak Ravitz. Yes, Ravitz is the son of the Degel MK.
Turns out Ravitz surprisingly lost to Shitreet, and MK Ravitz is fighting to get Shitreet thrown otu because Degel is an Ashkenazy party and a sfardi shold not be there. He should be in Shas.
So as long as he was just a voter, and a shlepper, it was ok for him to be in Degel. As soon as he beat out the "son of" for the paying job in city hall, then all of the sudden there is no room for him.
I dont know if Ravitz won, or will win, his fight or not, but even if he loses it, he will just move his son to another city where he can put him at the head of Degel there.
Degel HaTorah is a family business. I am not family, so I do not feel beholden to them.
I have no problem with Degel being a family business. I just feel no obligation to vote for them. If I do vote for them, it is because they earned it. And because it is a family business, I do not consider it a mitzva of any sort to vote for them or for their recommendation for mayor.
If I feel like voting for them because I like certain things they do, I will vote for them. If not, not. If I wish to follow their recommendation for mayor, I will. If not, not. I am open to them just as I am open to every other party, as per my needs and concerns.
If I need to buy something, and there are two stores that sell it. For whatever reason I ask my rav which store I should go to. He tells me one of them. I find out that his wife or son-in-law own that store. So is it a mitzva to shop there now. I think because the store is owned by his relative, it is no longer a mitzva, and the psak is tainted with conflict of interest. I might still choose to buy the item there, because perhaps they give better service, or maybe they sell it with a bigger smile, or they'll give me a discount or whatever other reason there might be. But it will not be a mitzva. This is how I look at the relationship between Degel and the rabbonim.
Another thing - Do you know how many stories I have heard of Haredi baalei Batim who can't get their kids into schools? Do Gimmel people help? no. often, and I am aware of cases, where it is the gimmel askanim who were the cause for them being rejected, claiming they are not frum enough.
Now those same askanim have the chutzpah to call these people and demand that they vote gimmel.
So again - if I want to vote Gimmel because I admire their work and think they do important stuff, more so than other parties, I will vote for them. If not, not. I will not vote for them just because of social obligations, or because I am bullied into it. if I vote for them it is because I want to.
And the same goes for mayor. i will choose for whom I want to vote. I feel beholden to nobody, and I have no need to listen to anybody else's opinion on who I should vote for. Nobody has a right to demand my vote. Tell me your guy's qualities and platform, and maybe I will be convinced. But nobody has a right to demand my vote.
Feb 12, 2008
MK Ravitz confirms it is the askanim not the gedolim who decide what to do
MKs from UTJ Avraham Ravitz (Degel) and Yaakov Litzman (Aguda) do not get along that well. It is well known.
Ynet reports that Ravitz claims that Litzman is the reason they are not in the government, and the reason is because he was insulted when the position of Director of Treasury Committee was taken from him so now he will not talk to Olmert about it.
Ravitz claims if it was up to him he would dismantle UTJ and make a separate party for Degel. If it was up to him he would join the government depending on passing certain laws for the benefot of the Haredi educational system. "Litzman forces his opinion on the other party members and there is nothing they can do. He uses his Admor and does everything he says.."
UPDATED - Ravitz said, "Because the Rabbonim do not want to see argument (machloket), so they do what [Litzman] says.."
If you ever needed confirmation that the askanim run the show and tell the gedolim what to do or say, it just came from the askan's mouth...
Ynet reports that Ravitz claims that Litzman is the reason they are not in the government, and the reason is because he was insulted when the position of Director of Treasury Committee was taken from him so now he will not talk to Olmert about it.
Ravitz claims if it was up to him he would dismantle UTJ and make a separate party for Degel. If it was up to him he would join the government depending on passing certain laws for the benefot of the Haredi educational system. "Litzman forces his opinion on the other party members and there is nothing they can do. He uses his Admor and does everything he says.."
UPDATED - Ravitz said, "Because the Rabbonim do not want to see argument (machloket), so they do what [Litzman] says.."
If you ever needed confirmation that the askanim run the show and tell the gedolim what to do or say, it just came from the askan's mouth...
Labels:
askanim,
Gerrer Rebbe,
haredim,
UTJ
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