Showing posts with label secular education. Show all posts
Showing posts with label secular education. Show all posts
Aug 22, 2023
Belz to educate their kids
The news announced that Belz is in the final stages of moving its chain of schools to the Bnei Yosef umbrella organization. The Belz schools, starting with a pilot of 2, will learn full core curriculum studies and in exchange will qualify for full government funding.
They are not being forced to do this but are doing it of their own initiative, so I bless them and wish them success. I personally think more education is a good thing and this move will hopefully give their children more opportunities when they get older.
I do wonder though, what changed?
Before the last elections they were already in the final stages of adding core curriculum studies and it nearly blew apart UTJ. Eventually they were promised additional funding if they would stay and not add the core curriculum studies, and they agreed and things calmed down. One of the compromises, which at the time did not go through, was to join the Bnei Yosef umbrella rather than just going straight to the government. At the time it did not happen, but now it seems to be in its final stages.
My question is, did they not get the money that was promised to them? What changed? Why after a loud public agreement to stop that movement to secular studies are they raising this issue again now? I think it is a good thing and I felt bad when it was then thwarted, but I am wondering what changed.
I have also seen a lot of criticism that some sort of scam is involved, they arent really going to study the full curriculum, they will claim they are with less supervision just to get the additional full funding. I dont know if any of that is true, and I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think proving that they are involved in a scam will be on other people to prove. I wish Belz luck and success in their new approach to education in Israel.
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May 29, 2023
Quote of the Day
This is an unparalleled chutzpa. There is still no study anywhere in the world that shows that someone who studies core curriculum subjects ends up being a better earner..
-- Minister in the Education Ministry, Chaim Biton
this is amazing. Besides for the blatant lie as there are plenty of studies from all around the world including Israel that prove that on average educated people are more successful in earning a living (yes, we all know stories of people without classic education who became wealthy, but we are talking about "on average", not the exceptions or the individuals), it is amazing that a minister int he education ministry can openly talk about there being no need for education...
He should have just stuck to the normal Haredi talking points that even if it helps, we dont care, it is our right to educate our children how we want, for pure unadulterated torah studies and future parnasa is not high on our list of priorities..
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Sep 28, 2022
Headlines Podcast: 9/24/22 – Shiur 389 – The Kashrus scandal in the Chinese Restaurant | The New York State Board of Regents vote regarding Yeshivos (audio)
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Aug 29, 2022
Belz and Degel back to square one
Back in January it became known to the public that Belz was negotiating with the Ministry of Education to establish its internal school systems as Haredi public schools, in which their students would study core curriculum subjects, and they worked out a deal regarding supervision and inspections along with full financial support. Belz was upset that Degel Hatorah was not allowing them to join the Chinuch Atzmai system, and they needed a solution to their deep financial crisis, and could no longer go it independently. Belz came under heavy criticism from other Haredi factions, but Degel persisted int heir refusal to allow new members into Chinuch Atzmai.
It seems that Belz pursuing this arrangement with the Ministry of Education, and having come to an agreement, is actually what is behind the potential split between the Degel Hatorah and Agudat Yisrael factions of UTJ. Degel Hatorah is incensed that Belz would take on the core curriculum studies in exchange for money, something that they have fought valiantly against until now and has made this issue one of their central issues. Even though Belz is only doing it because Degel refuses to let them into Chinuch Atzmai.
Agudat Yisrael is now proposing a compromise, that would seemingly solve the entire dispute and allow the two factions to run together as a united party.
What is the proposed solution?
They are proposing that Degel Hatorah allow Belz to join Chinuch Atzmai and get funding for its schools through them and they will then put an end to their program to join the Ministry of Education.
I would note this is what they have been proposing all along, with Degel regularly refusing. this proposal is nothing new, just couched in the political framework of the upcoming elections.
While there is no word yet as to a response from Degel Hatorah, unless they now feel backed into the corner I dont see why they would change their opinion now when they have not all along. Degel is confident they can run it alone, if their rabbonim tell them to, so they probably dont feel much pressure to accept the deal now. I am not saying they shouldn't, just that I dont see anything special about this offer that is different form what happened until now, so don't see why they would - unless the rabbonim tell them to accept it just to avoid splitting the party. Basically, 9 months later they are still arguing about the same exact thing they were back then with each side still standing firm on the same exact spot that they were before..
As I said back then, keep saying no without providing an alternative, a solution of some sort, and they will go find their own solution, one you might not like. This is true almost 100% of the time in almost all situations. And now they, both sides, are stuck with the consequences of those decisions.
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Jan 26, 2022
Belz mainstreaming Haredi public schools
The news is reporting that the Belz people (educational committee, representatives of the Admor and whoever else is important there) have been negotiating with the government to convert the Belz educational system and all, or most of, its schools, into joining the public school system. They would become what has become known as "MaMaCh" - Mamlachti Haredi schools. That is the public school system for the Haredi community.
If the negotiations succeed, Belz would benefit by possibly increasing the government support of their schools to up to 100%. As a private school now they get only 55% max of government support, and they always claim much less in reality. It seems they are in a bit of a financial bind and recent fundraising efforts have fallen short, along with efforts to increase support from Chinuch Atzmai also failing.
As part of the MaMaCh system Belz would commit to implementing full secular studies into their school systems with the bagrut testing as well. They would focus on bagrut in the fields of mathematics, English language and Hebrew language. the government would likely have to agree on no external supervision and inspections and would instead limit the supervision to reviewing the semi-annual testing. The level of support would also depend on the level of success in the testing, as that would indicate that they are actually teaching and studying the material and taking it seriously.
This is a major shift. The institutional Haredi community has vehemently opposed the MaMaCh system. Even if it does not work out in the end, though right now it looks like it is nearly a done deal, the fact that they have been negotiating, and seriously negotiating, is itself a big deal and a monumental shift in Haredi society. I dont know if it will lead to other communities adjusting attitudes as well and consider joining the MaMaCh system, or at least not opposing it as strongly they have until now, but a major community like Belz joining it is definitely going to go a long way to kashering it in the minds of many.
The Haredi community always claimed, especially about the educational system, that they cannot be bought for money - they will never change just for increased budgets. It looks like that is just a myth.
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May 4, 2020
discovering America in the Haredi educational system
The State Comptroller released is annual report today. In it Ombudsman Engelman had some comments on the Haredi educational system.
The report says that only 3% of students in the Haredi educational system do the Bagrut matriculation exams. Even taking into account the Haredi schools that teach core curriculum studies, the level of the teachers hired for teaching subjects like Mathematics and English is very low. 95% of Mathematics teachers in the Haredi system are people who themselves never learned math in any significant way. 40% of the text books used in the Haredi system have not been updated in years and are not fit for use. The vast majority of English teachers in the Haredi system have no professional training. Only 10% of the teachers in the Haredi school systems have academic training to teach. There is absolutely no oversight in the system.
The Ombudsman's conclusion is that basic educational norms are not being implemented in the Haredi educational system.
source: ynet and others
Hello, Captain Obvious!
In Hebrew there is a phrase, that can be used seriously or rhetorically, "You just discovered America!"
The report says that only 3% of students in the Haredi educational system do the Bagrut matriculation exams. Even taking into account the Haredi schools that teach core curriculum studies, the level of the teachers hired for teaching subjects like Mathematics and English is very low. 95% of Mathematics teachers in the Haredi system are people who themselves never learned math in any significant way. 40% of the text books used in the Haredi system have not been updated in years and are not fit for use. The vast majority of English teachers in the Haredi system have no professional training. Only 10% of the teachers in the Haredi school systems have academic training to teach. There is absolutely no oversight in the system.
The Ombudsman's conclusion is that basic educational norms are not being implemented in the Haredi educational system.
source: ynet and others
Hello, Captain Obvious!
In Hebrew there is a phrase, that can be used seriously or rhetorically, "You just discovered America!"
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Feb 13, 2020
Gafni offers to open schools with secular education
In a recent parlor meeting with the "Working Haredim", MK Moshe Gafni (UTJ) told them that he would never agree to the opening of Haredi schools under the State public school system (rather than in the Chinuch Atzmai private system), and he would do whatever possible to thwart attempts to open such schools, even if it means toppling the government.
These schools, known as "MaMaCh" (abbreviation for Mamlachti Charedi), have become a goal of the more "modern", working, haredim. Many of those in this category want their children to get a fuller education, well beyond what the classic haredi boys schools offer. Until now, attempts to open such schools have been met with strong opposition, and more often than not have gotten stopped early int he process. Only a small number were successfully opened despite the opposition to them.
It is a funny thing to say when trying to get people's votes - the one thing that is most important to you is something we will never agree to and will do everything to prevent. But at least Gafni is honest and does not [always] just make campaign promises he has no intention of keeping - you have to respect him for that.
Strangely enough, today Gafni announced a new initiative in an attempt to make the MaMaCh somewhat superfluous - or at least to be able to claim we can offer you an alternative.
According to Kikar, Gafni revealed that Chinuch Atzmai is going to, with the permission of the gedolim, open new schools for Haredi boys that will offer secular studies, in places that it is in demand. Gafni said the gedolim have already given them the green light to open such schools.
This is very interesting news. It is astounding news. Until now Gafni and his peers have always fought against secular studies claiming it as being against the mesora, the tradition, of generations of God fearing Jews who follow the gedolim, בדרך ישראל סבא , and only educated the young in torah. Suddenly it is ok to open schools, and send your children to them, that teach a full secular curriculum - but only if the same people can control it.
Whether he will actually do it or not is another question. The fact that he is saying he is willing to and the gedolim have approved it in theory is both shocking and astounding.
These schools, known as "MaMaCh" (abbreviation for Mamlachti Charedi), have become a goal of the more "modern", working, haredim. Many of those in this category want their children to get a fuller education, well beyond what the classic haredi boys schools offer. Until now, attempts to open such schools have been met with strong opposition, and more often than not have gotten stopped early int he process. Only a small number were successfully opened despite the opposition to them.
It is a funny thing to say when trying to get people's votes - the one thing that is most important to you is something we will never agree to and will do everything to prevent. But at least Gafni is honest and does not [always] just make campaign promises he has no intention of keeping - you have to respect him for that.
Strangely enough, today Gafni announced a new initiative in an attempt to make the MaMaCh somewhat superfluous - or at least to be able to claim we can offer you an alternative.
According to Kikar, Gafni revealed that Chinuch Atzmai is going to, with the permission of the gedolim, open new schools for Haredi boys that will offer secular studies, in places that it is in demand. Gafni said the gedolim have already given them the green light to open such schools.
This is very interesting news. It is astounding news. Until now Gafni and his peers have always fought against secular studies claiming it as being against the mesora, the tradition, of generations of God fearing Jews who follow the gedolim, בדרך ישראל סבא , and only educated the young in torah. Suddenly it is ok to open schools, and send your children to them, that teach a full secular curriculum - but only if the same people can control it.
Whether he will actually do it or not is another question. The fact that he is saying he is willing to and the gedolim have approved it in theory is both shocking and astounding.
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Jan 19, 2020
Headlines Podcast: 1/18/20 - Show 255 - Is it Mutar to go to Secular College (audio)
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Nov 4, 2019
Rav Kesslers causes brouhaha with letter against secular studies
Behadrei reported yesterday about Rav Meir Kessler, Chief Rabbi of Modiin Ilit, stating his opinion, published in a letter to city residents, that opposes courses in secular studies for children int he Haredi school system.
Since the "cheiders" in Modiin Ilit do not teach secular studies, he is referring to private classes taken after school hours, chugim, that are meant to give the children some basic tools for the future and possible future work skills. Rav Kessler wrote very harshly against it and encourages parents to only raise interest and encouragement for more Torah studies in their children, and not secular studies, so that in the future they will grow to be God-fearing Torah scholars.
This letter from Rav Kessler caused a bit of a stir. Many are criticizing him for opposing secular studies and concerned parents giving the kids a chance in the future, and even MK Yair Lapid (Kachol Lavan) commented on what Rav Kessler said.
In my opinion, Rav Kessler has done nothing wrong beyond stating his opinion. He is a rabbi in the extreme mainstream Litvishe community, and he is a rabbi of an extreme Litvish city. What do people expect him to say or his opinion to be? The mainstream Litvishe (and maybe others as well) believes children should only be learning Torah with no secular studies, so Rav Kessler has not said or supported anything he, along with hundreds of other rabbis, does not already support. I am not sure what people expected his opinion to be that this shocked and upset them
Since the "cheiders" in Modiin Ilit do not teach secular studies, he is referring to private classes taken after school hours, chugim, that are meant to give the children some basic tools for the future and possible future work skills. Rav Kessler wrote very harshly against it and encourages parents to only raise interest and encouragement for more Torah studies in their children, and not secular studies, so that in the future they will grow to be God-fearing Torah scholars.
This letter from Rav Kessler caused a bit of a stir. Many are criticizing him for opposing secular studies and concerned parents giving the kids a chance in the future, and even MK Yair Lapid (Kachol Lavan) commented on what Rav Kessler said.
In my opinion, Rav Kessler has done nothing wrong beyond stating his opinion. He is a rabbi in the extreme mainstream Litvishe community, and he is a rabbi of an extreme Litvish city. What do people expect him to say or his opinion to be? The mainstream Litvishe (and maybe others as well) believes children should only be learning Torah with no secular studies, so Rav Kessler has not said or supported anything he, along with hundreds of other rabbis, does not already support. I am not sure what people expected his opinion to be that this shocked and upset them
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Feb 26, 2019
Secular Education in Hasidic Yeshivas - Panel on "Deep Dive" Fox Nation (video)
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Dec 23, 2018
12/22/18 New York State Education Bill - Dealing with the Danger - How much, if any, secular studies should we have? (audio)
very interesting..
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Dec 13, 2018
Rabbi Reisman on the threat to our community (video)
I am not quite sure what to think of this, and I have no understanding of what the demand for 7 hours of secular studies is - 7 hours a day? a week? a month? 7 per day would be ridiculous - my kids dont even go to school for 7 hours a day! 7 a week, and definitely a month, doesn't sound like a problem.
Rabbi Reisman on the threat to our community from Agudath Israel on Vimeo.
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Mar 6, 2018
the horses have left the barn - academic education in the Haredi community
Campus Strauss, a Haredi college campus in Jerusalem working with Hadassah Academic College, celebrated its first male graduating class, with 45 Haredi men achieving college degrees in the fields of biotechnology, politics, communications, and management.
Campus Strauss has been around for a while and already has many graduating classes of frum women in various fields of study, but in the men's program this is the first.
The graduation ceremony was met with a group of protesters. The Haredi extremist protesters were screaming epithets such as "Nazi", "Sheigetz" and "Maskil", among other things, at the graduates and their families.
source: Kikar
Considering that they were not protesting any possible bittul torah involved, as perhaps they feel the graduates should be learning Torah instead, which would be ironic on its own that they stop learning in order to protest other people not learning, it makes me wonder what is going on. They were screaming "maskil" and things like that. They are upset about the academic education entering the Haredi community.
That being the case, why do they not protest the women graduating from Campus Strauss?
Anyways, the extremists will continue doing their thing, as they've done for a long time. To their misfortune, the train has left the station. The horses have left the barn. They are a day late and a dollar short.
The people have spoken. More and more want to be able to support their families respectably and not just live off welfare and sit in yeshivas they are not fit for (not including people who do have the ability and desire to sit and learn all day). These people can protest all they want, but it is too late.
Campus Strauss has been around for a while and already has many graduating classes of frum women in various fields of study, but in the men's program this is the first.
The graduation ceremony was met with a group of protesters. The Haredi extremist protesters were screaming epithets such as "Nazi", "Sheigetz" and "Maskil", among other things, at the graduates and their families.
source: Kikar
Considering that they were not protesting any possible bittul torah involved, as perhaps they feel the graduates should be learning Torah instead, which would be ironic on its own that they stop learning in order to protest other people not learning, it makes me wonder what is going on. They were screaming "maskil" and things like that. They are upset about the academic education entering the Haredi community.
That being the case, why do they not protest the women graduating from Campus Strauss?
Anyways, the extremists will continue doing their thing, as they've done for a long time. To their misfortune, the train has left the station. The horses have left the barn. They are a day late and a dollar short.
The people have spoken. More and more want to be able to support their families respectably and not just live off welfare and sit in yeshivas they are not fit for (not including people who do have the ability and desire to sit and learn all day). These people can protest all they want, but it is too late.
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Feb 11, 2018
One Thousand Dollar Sandwich - Is it Kosher? — Secular Subjects in Yeshivas (audio)
the first portion is about the $1000 pastrami sandwich offered up by a NY restaurant recently. After that he discusses the need, or no need, for a basic high school education.
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Nov 1, 2017
Debate necessity of core curriculum studies in Haredi community (video)
debate between educator Menachem Bombach and lawyer Moshe Lippel
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May 3, 2017
secular winner of International Bible Quiz
for the first time in 30 years, a non-religious student of the public school system, Sagiv Lugasi, has won the International Bible Quiz yesterday on Yom Haatzmaut.
Mazel tov!
Lugasi must be a prodigy, especially considering how poorly Tanakh is supposedly taught (or so we are told) in the Israeli public school system. Or maybe it is just impressive to see a secular 13 year old student so interested in Tanakh, and to have teachers that encourage him, to be able to accomplish this.
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Dec 21, 2016
a pig in a shtreimel
Ignoring everything else Rav Shteinman and others at the anti-academic-education-for-women rally said, as this topic has been discussed ad nauseum already... isn't the phrase Rav Shteinman coined - a pig in a shtreimel - just totally awesome?
I don't know how he came up with that, but I think that "pig in a shtreimel" must be the best expression I have heard from any rabbi in a very long time...
and funnily enough, a brief search on Google actually had a few images for this expression (which means it isn't really new, though I never heard it before)
I don't know how he came up with that, but I think that "pig in a shtreimel" must be the best expression I have heard from any rabbi in a very long time...
and funnily enough, a brief search on Google actually had a few images for this expression (which means it isn't really new, though I never heard it before)
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Aug 8, 2016
the secular do know core curriculum studies? (video)
I didn't remember anything about most of these either...
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Aug 3, 2016
MK Porush reviews the core curriculum law change and history (video)
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Aug 12, 2014
new Haredi Yeshiva University opening
a new yeshiva is opening, with a new model - at least it is new for Israel.
The yeshiva is going to operate on a model that is fairly common in the USA - it will integrate both learning Torah as a yeshiva gedola, along with academics and vocational training. The academic program works through the Open University. do not know what they do about army service - I see no mention of it on the website FAQ. Also, they are designed specifically for kids from the Haredi school system that do not have bagrut exams.
The concept is so foreign in Israel that the haredi website Bechadrei describes it as the "yeshiva university" of Israel, and, of course, the Yated decries its opening. While it is unheard of here, in the USA it is not relegated to the Modern Orthodox (the implication by comparing it to YU rather than Ner Yisroel and any of many other similar programs) or the less religious, but even many prestigious "haredi" yeshivas have such programs.
.jpg)
The new yeshiva is called "Darkei Chaim", aka Campus Ein Chemed, and it is founded by Rav Yisrael Cohen-Rozovski. Cohen-Rozovski has taught in the haredi educational system for many years and more recently has been involved in opening vocational training centers. The other rabbonim involved in the project are graduates of Haredi yeshivas such as Chevron Yeshiva, Tifrach, Mir, among other institutions they were involved in.
According to Bechadrei, Cohen-Rozovski came up with the solution after coming into contact with many young haredi men who had left the classic yeshivas in deference to acquiring vocational training. Coehn-Rozovski says that these boys look and act Haredi, they dress Haredi, but they do not open seforim and learn. He says it is better that they should learn a trade, as they already want to and are doing, in an institution that is torani and Haredi, with the right atmosphere, and with Torah learning. He also says this is advancing the cure to the illness. Instead of waiting to deal with young men who are tomorrow going to be considered dropouts and will already be far from Torah and already at odds with their communities, better to solve the problem early..
At a recent educational conference, he announced his program:
So, is the calling of such a program "Yeshiva University" meant to be a "swipe" at the program, as if saying it is not really for a haredi boy? Or maybe it is just ignorance of the fact that abroad such programs work even in the Ultra-Orthodox world.
The Yated Neeman attacks the program in an editorial in today's newspaper. They consider such a program to be shaatnez. Despite the fact that they also oppose academic studies on their own, independent from yeshiva, when connected to a yeshiva they consider it shaatnez and oppose it as being possibly even worse, and it shouldn't be called by the title "yeshiva", as doing so is an attempt to entrap yeshiva boys..and it is meant to "cool the bathwaters" and open things up for compromise and breach the walls of isolation of the god-fearing community.
The yeshiva is going to operate on a model that is fairly common in the USA - it will integrate both learning Torah as a yeshiva gedola, along with academics and vocational training. The academic program works through the Open University. do not know what they do about army service - I see no mention of it on the website FAQ. Also, they are designed specifically for kids from the Haredi school system that do not have bagrut exams.
The concept is so foreign in Israel that the haredi website Bechadrei describes it as the "yeshiva university" of Israel, and, of course, the Yated decries its opening. While it is unheard of here, in the USA it is not relegated to the Modern Orthodox (the implication by comparing it to YU rather than Ner Yisroel and any of many other similar programs) or the less religious, but even many prestigious "haredi" yeshivas have such programs.
.jpg)
The new yeshiva is called "Darkei Chaim", aka Campus Ein Chemed, and it is founded by Rav Yisrael Cohen-Rozovski. Cohen-Rozovski has taught in the haredi educational system for many years and more recently has been involved in opening vocational training centers. The other rabbonim involved in the project are graduates of Haredi yeshivas such as Chevron Yeshiva, Tifrach, Mir, among other institutions they were involved in.
According to Bechadrei, Cohen-Rozovski came up with the solution after coming into contact with many young haredi men who had left the classic yeshivas in deference to acquiring vocational training. Coehn-Rozovski says that these boys look and act Haredi, they dress Haredi, but they do not open seforim and learn. He says it is better that they should learn a trade, as they already want to and are doing, in an institution that is torani and Haredi, with the right atmosphere, and with Torah learning. He also says this is advancing the cure to the illness. Instead of waiting to deal with young men who are tomorrow going to be considered dropouts and will already be far from Torah and already at odds with their communities, better to solve the problem early..
At a recent educational conference, he announced his program:
So, is the calling of such a program "Yeshiva University" meant to be a "swipe" at the program, as if saying it is not really for a haredi boy? Or maybe it is just ignorance of the fact that abroad such programs work even in the Ultra-Orthodox world.
The Yated Neeman attacks the program in an editorial in today's newspaper. They consider such a program to be shaatnez. Despite the fact that they also oppose academic studies on their own, independent from yeshiva, when connected to a yeshiva they consider it shaatnez and oppose it as being possibly even worse, and it shouldn't be called by the title "yeshiva", as doing so is an attempt to entrap yeshiva boys..and it is meant to "cool the bathwaters" and open things up for compromise and breach the walls of isolation of the god-fearing community.
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