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Showing posts sorted by relevance for query belz chinuch atzmai. Sort by date Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by relevance for query belz chinuch atzmai. Sort by date Show all posts
Aug 29, 2022
Belz and Degel back to square one
Back in January it became known to the public that Belz was negotiating with the Ministry of Education to establish its internal school systems as Haredi public schools, in which their students would study core curriculum subjects, and they worked out a deal regarding supervision and inspections along with full financial support. Belz was upset that Degel Hatorah was not allowing them to join the Chinuch Atzmai system, and they needed a solution to their deep financial crisis, and could no longer go it independently. Belz came under heavy criticism from other Haredi factions, but Degel persisted int heir refusal to allow new members into Chinuch Atzmai.
It seems that Belz pursuing this arrangement with the Ministry of Education, and having come to an agreement, is actually what is behind the potential split between the Degel Hatorah and Agudat Yisrael factions of UTJ. Degel Hatorah is incensed that Belz would take on the core curriculum studies in exchange for money, something that they have fought valiantly against until now and has made this issue one of their central issues. Even though Belz is only doing it because Degel refuses to let them into Chinuch Atzmai.
Agudat Yisrael is now proposing a compromise, that would seemingly solve the entire dispute and allow the two factions to run together as a united party.
What is the proposed solution?
They are proposing that Degel Hatorah allow Belz to join Chinuch Atzmai and get funding for its schools through them and they will then put an end to their program to join the Ministry of Education.
I would note this is what they have been proposing all along, with Degel regularly refusing. this proposal is nothing new, just couched in the political framework of the upcoming elections.
While there is no word yet as to a response from Degel Hatorah, unless they now feel backed into the corner I dont see why they would change their opinion now when they have not all along. Degel is confident they can run it alone, if their rabbonim tell them to, so they probably dont feel much pressure to accept the deal now. I am not saying they shouldn't, just that I dont see anything special about this offer that is different form what happened until now, so don't see why they would - unless the rabbonim tell them to accept it just to avoid splitting the party. Basically, 9 months later they are still arguing about the same exact thing they were back then with each side still standing firm on the same exact spot that they were before..
As I said back then, keep saying no without providing an alternative, a solution of some sort, and they will go find their own solution, one you might not like. This is true almost 100% of the time in almost all situations. And now they, both sides, are stuck with the consequences of those decisions.
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Jan 26, 2022
Belz mainstreaming Haredi public schools
The news is reporting that the Belz people (educational committee, representatives of the Admor and whoever else is important there) have been negotiating with the government to convert the Belz educational system and all, or most of, its schools, into joining the public school system. They would become what has become known as "MaMaCh" - Mamlachti Haredi schools. That is the public school system for the Haredi community.
If the negotiations succeed, Belz would benefit by possibly increasing the government support of their schools to up to 100%. As a private school now they get only 55% max of government support, and they always claim much less in reality. It seems they are in a bit of a financial bind and recent fundraising efforts have fallen short, along with efforts to increase support from Chinuch Atzmai also failing.
As part of the MaMaCh system Belz would commit to implementing full secular studies into their school systems with the bagrut testing as well. They would focus on bagrut in the fields of mathematics, English language and Hebrew language. the government would likely have to agree on no external supervision and inspections and would instead limit the supervision to reviewing the semi-annual testing. The level of support would also depend on the level of success in the testing, as that would indicate that they are actually teaching and studying the material and taking it seriously.
This is a major shift. The institutional Haredi community has vehemently opposed the MaMaCh system. Even if it does not work out in the end, though right now it looks like it is nearly a done deal, the fact that they have been negotiating, and seriously negotiating, is itself a big deal and a monumental shift in Haredi society. I dont know if it will lead to other communities adjusting attitudes as well and consider joining the MaMaCh system, or at least not opposing it as strongly they have until now, but a major community like Belz joining it is definitely going to go a long way to kashering it in the minds of many.
The Haredi community always claimed, especially about the educational system, that they cannot be bought for money - they will never change just for increased budgets. It looks like that is just a myth.
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Sep 12, 2022
looks like the manufactured crisis is over
It seems, as most people expected, that Degel Hatorah and Agudat Yisrael have come to an agreement to continue to run together as a united party (aka joint list) in the coming elections.
The surprising part of the agreement is that it came with so much time to spare. They could easily have dragged this out a couple more days.
That being said, I dont understand what about this agreement is attractive that Belz agreed to it. According to the part that under ideological dispute, they have agreed that if the Right Bloc achieves 61 mandates to form a government, Netanyahu would work to provide equal funding to the Haredi schools even without incorporating the core curriculum studies. And if the Right bloc does not achieve 61, then Degel would allow one school from Belz to join Chinuch Atzmai, but only a school that has already been learning core curriculum studies, not one that will start and not any more than one.
Obviously if they get 61 that will provide a great solution for them (if Netanyahu goes through with his side in this) but if not, Belz is getting almost nothing. One school? How does that solve anything for Belz? I dont get it, but they agreed to it, so good luck to them.
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UTJ
Sep 5, 2022
Agudat Yisrael hits back at Degel Hatorah
I like it. Agudat Yisrael is hitting back at Degel Hatiorah. Degekl is claiming to be upset that the Belzer Rebeb approved that the Belz educational system should adopt the core curriculum studies so as to get full funding form the Ministry of Education (they say they are doing it so their teachers can get a decent salary and stop leaving for greener pastures). Degel wont let them into Chinuch Atzmai, so this is the only route left open tot hem, but Degel considers this to be a serious breach in Haredi Judaism and the fidelity to a pure educational system.
Aguda is now hitting back. They are attacking Degel for double standards - while they criticize Belz for the educational decisions, a decision that only affects internal Belz schools, whiel Degel Hatora ran a faction in the World Zionist Organization elections and is sitting in a coalition with the Reform - just to get jobs and money.
source: Kikar
This is a questionable argument because Degel did not officially run in the WZO elections and join. The Eretz Hakodesh faction is technically independent, run by Rabbi Pesach Lerner and overseen by Yitzchak Pindrus, MK of Degel Hatorah. Even MK Uri Maklev of Degel has admitted that Eretz Hakodesh is a daughter faction fo Degel Hatorah. Shas joined WZO several years earlier in a more official capacity. Degel only joined WZO in the most recent election but they did so while hiding behind a different name.
So, Degel can attack Aguda for adopting some increased secular studies for money but Degel can join WZO and sit in a coalition with the Reform for money?
Pindrus vehemently denies the whole thing saying Degel has nothing to do with it. As mentioned, in an interview this evening Maklev admitted the connection between Degel and Eretz Hakodesh.
I love it.
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