there were a few good quotes for today, but this one takes the cake. I am amused by how snide and snippy it is, and how demeaning and upsetting it is to so many people..

According to a news report on Behadrei and Srugim, 4 religious soldiers from a hesder unit in basic training were in a group on a trip visiting Har Herzl. During the trip one of the visits was to the grave of PM Yitzchak Rabin. The boys refused to visit the grave, for ideological reasons, and after being warned that they are due to receive a punishment for refusing orders they doubled down and escaped from the army base.

Soldiers need to know they are in the army, not in free society. Soldiers do not get to choose what they do and what they do not do. As long as they are not being given illegal or immoral orders, they need to be disciplined and follow orders. That is Army 101. An army cannot function without army discipline and a lot of what soldiers go through during basic training is to teach them the discipline required for military success.

So, if the army wants the group to visit a series of graves, you go even if you don't like one of them. Dont say tehillim on his grave or put a stone or whatever, linger in the back of the group, but go.

If the army was taking them to a series of graves of dead prime ministers and heroic soldiers, then go to them all, even Rabin's. However, and I don't know what graves the group was visiting, if the army is taking the group specifically to Rabin's grave to indoctrinate them in something, then I can understand their skipping out. The army needs to train the soldiers to fight and fulfill their various roles, not to teach them ideology or to decide who needs to be admired and who not.

we need more yeshivot like this one, the first, and so far only, Haredi hesder yeshiva with a unique focus.. and I think it is just a matter of time until more of these are established..

from INN:

A first-of-its-kind haredi-religious yeshiva has officially been accepted into the ranks of the IDF's hesder movement. Named Derekh Chaim (Path of Life), it combines not only Torah studies and military service, as in all hesder yeshivot, but also technological studies, with an emphasis on cyber-warfare.
Derekh Chaim was initiated by none other than the Defense Ministry's Security-Sociological Wing and the IDF's Manpower and Chief Rabbinate Departments, for the purpose of enabling young haredi men the opportunity for "meaningful IDF service."
The Rosh Yeshiva is Rabbi Carmi Gross, of the English-speaking haredi community in Beit Shemesh. The yeshiva is located in Moshav Nachalim, near Petach Tikvah, having moved there just recently after its previous site in Jerusalem proved unable to handle the burgeoning student body.
The four-year post-high school program in Derekh Chaim begins with two years of study, followed by two years of army service. During the first two years, the students learn various disciplines of Torah for 45 hours a week – plus another 20 weekly hours of technology study. During the third and fourth years, the student-soldiers are integrated into the cyber and intelligence divisions of the IDF; the former deals with protecting sensitive computer and internet networks, and the second deals with cyber attacks.
Derekh Chaim actually began nearly a year ago, but operated in relative secrecy in order to prove itself before haredi-religious opposition might nip it in the bud. Until its establishment, the only yeshivot which combined Torah study and military service were the growing number of religious-Zionist hesder institution.
Rabbi Gross formerly taught in the yeshiva high school Maarava, which faced similar challenges when it was founded and is now a successful educational enterprise and accepted fixture in the haredi public. Parents of Maarava students, in fact, provided some of the impetus for the founding of the new hesder yeshiva.
An additional course of study will apparently be opened in Derekh Chaim in the coming months - machine engineering and electrical engineering – at the request of the IDF's Merkavah and armored combat vehicles plant.

Basically, the politicians, if they aren't going to be helpful, should really just get out the way and not hinder progress.

I don't have any personal knowledge on the inner-workings of the hesder yeshivot, so I'll just put this out there without any comment of my own. Hamekor did an investigative report on the hesder yeshivot..

On the holiday of Simchat Torah, a religious female soldier was called up to the Torah for an aliyah at a minyan on a naval base.

The minyan is made up of both soldiers from the base as well as residents from the surrounding area.

The gabbai, a local civilian resident asked the female soldier if she wanted to be called up for an aliyah, considering the minhag on Simchat Torah that every person gets an aliyah. The soldier agreed and was called up. Other religious soldiers present, hesder yeshiva soldiers, decided to not make a big deal out of it in order to not embarrass her and they did not walk out. The rationale was that she had already been called up, rather than it being a discussion of should they call her up, and being that it is not a regular aliyah but a customary aliyah of simchat torah that is not necessary anyway, they decided to not protest on the spot.

The rav of the base was not present at the time.

The army's response was that after the incident they clarified what happened and have sharpened the procedures of the base for the future...
(source: Kipa)

I am shocked by this. Both by the calling of a female soldier in a regular minyan, and by the soldiers who stayed in and did not register a protest. I have no problem with womens minyanim, and women at such minyanim get called up to the Torah, turning an Orthodox regular minyan into an egalitarian minyan is improper and should have demanded the protest. It is not like womens singing where the prohibition is not clear and disputed and there are ways to avoid the problem (not listen, sing along quietly, ignore, rely on various leniencies, etc). Turning an orthodox minyan into an egalitarian one, even if the aliyahs on simchat torah are just based on custom, is not something that should be let slide.

A couple of inconsistencies that bother me regarding yesterday's vote in favor of the drafting of the Haredi community, specifically the yeshiva bochurim and avreichim:

1. Minister of Housing abstained form the "shivyon b'netel" vote. Ariel has been largely against the "shivyon b'netel" trend all along. One reason is because it has not really been equal, in the sense that the law and the movement all along has only been to draft haredim, but not to bring about equality in draft regarding Arabs. As well, Ariel has been opposed to it because of the inclusion of personal sanctions on those refusing to be drafted, turning them into criminals. I find it ironic that Minister Ariel abstained from the vote due to his opposition to it, but earlier in the day he praised what was about to happen.

Ariel said earlier in the day "today we are taking a significant step toward the integration of the Haredi public.  We in the Bayit Yehudi have succeeded in taking a bad law that was disconnected from reality and have been able to arrive at an agreed upon, and worthy, outline  for the integration of the Haredi community in a staggered and patient way... I believe the criminal sanctions issue will find a resolution in the Knesset committee." Ariel also went on to detail a number of other accomplishments Bayit Yehudi influenced in the formation of the shivyon bnetel bill.

So, on the one hand Ariel was against the bill to the point that he had to abstain, while on the other hand he is proud of its accomplishments. I am scratching my head...

2. Minister of Justice Tzippi Livni is not satisfied with the new haredi draft law. She says, and she is not alone in this opinion, that the shivyon bnetel law is not really equal. The difference between the various forms of dissatisfaction with the new law is in how Livni sees the inequality relative to how some others, like Avigdor Lieberman for example, see the inequality, and how they voted for it. Some, like Livni, voted for it despite not being satisfied with it, while others, like some of Lieberman's people, chose to abstain or oppose due to the way they perceive the inequality.

Minister Livni voted in favor, but really believes the law is not solving the shivyon bnetel problem. Livni sees a gross inequality in the fact that Yeshivat Hesder students only serve 16 (now 17) months of IDF service. She says that with the Haredim now being drafted for 24 months, we must extend the service of the Hesder students to achieve true equality.

I note that she is so concerned with true equality among Israeli citizens, yet she fails to make any mention of some of Israel's citizens who do no service at all. Only the ones who do some service are her target to do more.

From the start it was clear the hesder yeshivot would eventually have this problem. Once you go down the path of equality, it is difficult to justify any inequality, no matter how much else good they do. The haredim say they do a lot of chessed, and that should be considered similar to National Service, but it is not and is considered inequal. The hesder students say they serve in top units, elite units, combat units, in disproportionate numbers, and they combine it with Torah learning. But is we as a State want equal, that too is not equal. The question is why so few who are on the warpath for equality even bother to mention, let alone to look for a resolution for, the Arab inequality.

Way back when, some time last year, which in Israeli politics is ages, the public discussion turned to focus on the sharing of the burden of army service, with a specific focus on the haredim. Eventually the issue of hesder yeshiva students serving shorter periods of army service came up - HaBayit HaYehudi worked out a law that changed the status of the hesder yeshivot to be different than the haredi yeshivot, so they would not be affected by the same discussion. Shas even filed an appeal, which they rescinded shortly after, that would keep the hesder yeshivot in the same category as the haredi yeshivot that would have made them susceptible to whatever decision would eventually be taken against the haredi yeshivot regarding army service.

Now it looks like the hesder yeshivot are back on the table.

The IDF now has to make up for an expected shortfall of soldiers. They just announced a plan, that was approved, to cut the general army service by four months - from three years to 2 years and 8 months (not including combat soldiers and some others). In the committee discussion about this, one of the possibilities raised, that seems to have support among a majority of the ministers in this committee, is to make up the shortfall by lengthening the army portion of the hesder yeshiva students by an additional four months. If not, the burden of the extra service would end up being carried mostly by the reserve soldiers.

Minister of Housing Uri Ariel expressed concern that such an increase would push potential hesder students away from the hesder program and more into the "toraso umanuso" yeshiva programs, creating a net loss due to less boys being in hesder yeshivot.

I do not think Ariel is correct, as boys going to hesder generally see the combined army-yeshiva system as being ideal and I doubt the four months will scare them off. But I could be wrong.

To Ariel's claim, Minister of Sport Limor Livnat responded that anyway most religious people are not in hesder and do 3 years of service, and there is no reason the hesder students cannot do some more. Minister of Protecting the Environment Amir Peretz also added that if we are demanding the haredi yeshivot change their style and norms that have been in practice for tens of years, the same should be true for the hesder students.
(source: NRG)

The decision will come at a later stage, as there are some pitfalls to the concept, specifically the coalition agreements that protect the status of the hesder yeshivot. I do not see any  discussion, yet, regarding where those 4 months would come from - would the total amount of time in the hesder package be increased by 4 months, or maybe more to equally increase the yeshiva portion, or maybe the 4 months will come at the expense of some of the learning period?

Either way, the discussion of "shivyon b'netel" was always at risk of boomeranging back on the people who promoted it - and now that is happening. And don't think this is the end. Now it is four months, eventually it might be more. Eventually it might be religious girls not getting their exemptions automatically any longer, and eventually it might even increase the Sheirut Leumi system to a longer period of service. And maybe eventually someone will also start dealing with the inequality regarding the lack of service among the Arab sectors...

Finally a great solution to the army problem for haredim. This will not change the issue of "sharing the burden", nor will it be accepted en masse or with open arms by the haredi leadership, but it is another solution that will at least allow those who want, or need, to go to the army to do so without "compromising" their lifestyle.

According to Kikar (they use the army periodical Bamachane as the source, but I could not find it on their website, which does not seem to updated very frequently), the IDF rabbinical unit is working to set up a new hesder yeshiva geared specifically for haredim. The yeshiva would operate ona  different schedule than the standard hesder yeshivot, but more or less along the same idea. They hope to have 30 students for the coming year, Elul 5773, the first year of its operation, and then to grow from there.

Personally, unless they limit it to 30 students maximum, I would expect that they will get far more than 30 students.

According to the report, the new hesder yeshiva will combine learning Torah with vocational or career  training and then the students will be moved into the haredi army units of Nachal Haredi and Shah"ar. The yeshiva will not just be for married haredi students, but also for younger single students. In addition, the learning will be led by rabbonim not connected to the army, and tuition will be free.

As I said, unless they limit it to 30 for the first year, there is no reason a program like this should not attract a much larger group of students.

I would not expect a program like this to be met with open arms by the Haredi leadership. They will reject it as being an attempt to pull guys out of the regular yeshiva system. Eventually it will probably receive quiet acceptance.

Instead of fighting for forcing the draft upon the haredim, something that will never work and will likely reverse the progress made over the past few years that has been proven to be increasing the annual influx of haredim into the army, more programs like this need to be created. There are enough haredim who want, or need, to go to the army, that with enough programs in place, much of the problem would be solved naturally. It would not be a full solution to the "shivyon b'netel" issue, but it will solve a lot of the problem.