Featured Post
Free The Hostages! Bring Them Home!
(this is a featured post and will stay at the top for the foreseeable future.. scroll down for new posts) -------------------------------...
Sep 2, 2008
Interesting psak from the Satmar Rebbe: Hetter Mechira (in the US), sort of
The Mishpacha newspaper reported this past week about an interesting psak given by the Satmar Rebbe (Rav Aharon of Satmar) that utilizes the concept of hetter mechira to solve a technical problem.
Like many communities, the Satmar community goes en masse to a bungalow colony for the summer. It seems this colony has been plagued by having many bears enter the site, scaring many of the inhabitants.
They discovered the reason why their colony attracts bears more than others is due to the presence of a specific fruit tree in the camp. The bears come and hang out in or near the tree. Families are afraid to go out and relax, and nobody goes out calmly because they have no idea of they will be attacked by a bear.
Jewish law prohibits us from cutting down fruit trees (proof it seems that George Washington was not a Jew, or at least a religious one), and therefore that solution is not one that can easily be implemented, without finding some halachic loophole.
When Reb Aharon, the rebbe, was there, he was asked what they could do about this problem. After much research that included piles of seforim, along with going to the site of the tree and inspecting it, the rebbe paskened that the tree can be removed in the following fashion: Sell the tree, and the ground beneath it, to a non-Jew with a full sale, with a contract and everything. Request the buyer not cut down the tree, but let him know that he can uproot it and transfer it to another location.
The truth is that this use of the "hetter mechira" has no relevance on the validity of hetter mechira use to circumvent shmitta issues in Eretz Yisrael. In Israel there is a prohibition against selling land to a non-Jew, thus putting the whole validity of such a sale in question. There are solutions, some people hold of them and some do not (this post is not taking a stance on the issue).
Now, I wonder - if there was a clear danger to human life, wouldn't that allow them to cut down the tree with no questions, because of pikuach nefesh, just like it allows you to do anythign else such as breaking the laws of shabbos, for example?
It must be that it is not a clear danger. I have not heard of any Satmar Hassidim getting mauled by a Black Bear or a Grizzly Bear, though that does not mean it has not happened. But if it did not happen and the only problem is that they are afraid and it is disturbing their tranquility, then I can understand why cutting down the tree would remain a problem requiring an innovative solution.
Like many communities, the Satmar community goes en masse to a bungalow colony for the summer. It seems this colony has been plagued by having many bears enter the site, scaring many of the inhabitants.
They discovered the reason why their colony attracts bears more than others is due to the presence of a specific fruit tree in the camp. The bears come and hang out in or near the tree. Families are afraid to go out and relax, and nobody goes out calmly because they have no idea of they will be attacked by a bear.
Jewish law prohibits us from cutting down fruit trees (proof it seems that George Washington was not a Jew, or at least a religious one), and therefore that solution is not one that can easily be implemented, without finding some halachic loophole.
When Reb Aharon, the rebbe, was there, he was asked what they could do about this problem. After much research that included piles of seforim, along with going to the site of the tree and inspecting it, the rebbe paskened that the tree can be removed in the following fashion: Sell the tree, and the ground beneath it, to a non-Jew with a full sale, with a contract and everything. Request the buyer not cut down the tree, but let him know that he can uproot it and transfer it to another location.
The truth is that this use of the "hetter mechira" has no relevance on the validity of hetter mechira use to circumvent shmitta issues in Eretz Yisrael. In Israel there is a prohibition against selling land to a non-Jew, thus putting the whole validity of such a sale in question. There are solutions, some people hold of them and some do not (this post is not taking a stance on the issue).
Now, I wonder - if there was a clear danger to human life, wouldn't that allow them to cut down the tree with no questions, because of pikuach nefesh, just like it allows you to do anythign else such as breaking the laws of shabbos, for example?
It must be that it is not a clear danger. I have not heard of any Satmar Hassidim getting mauled by a Black Bear or a Grizzly Bear, though that does not mean it has not happened. But if it did not happen and the only problem is that they are afraid and it is disturbing their tranquility, then I can understand why cutting down the tree would remain a problem requiring an innovative solution.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Related Posts
Rafi - If it were pikuach nefesh, they could simply not go to the bungalow colony.
ReplyDeleteThey don't have to cut down the fruit tree, all they have to do is gather all of the fruit on the tree. Also, providing the community with electric fences that can be placed around fruit tree areas or individual fruit trees will help immensely. Bears who are used to raiding the fruit trees will try once again, only to get zapped by the current, which in turn will be what we call "adversive conditioning". The bears will learn not to go near the trees. As long as these bears are not receiving "food rewards" i.e.. fruit, garbage, bird seed, etc..the bears will learn not to go into this area. It will take some time but it has been effective here in the U.S.
ReplyDeletePlease go to this site to learn more:
http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org/
interesting solutions anonymous
ReplyDeleteThe brown bear is extinct there, so they are probably dealing with black bears. If you could pass along that information to the writer of this paper, that would be great. Extinction, as you probably know, is a horrible solution.
ReplyDeleteanonymous - let me qask you - why is moving the tree not a good solution in your opinion? you suggest blocking the tree with electrified fencing and that sounds good, but why is the solution they arrived at (moving the tree to a different location) not an equally good solution?
ReplyDeleteA baby was killed by a bear about 4 or 5 years ago at the Satmar bungalow colony.
ReplyDeleteWell, no, I thought they were trying to save the trees. If they want to move them by all means...move them.
ReplyDeletewell, the truth is they are just trying to remove the danger. your solution is one that I do not know if they considered. They did come to the solution of moving the tree, rather than destroying it.
ReplyDeleteSounds like a plan. Good to hear they thought of something positive and not destructive.
ReplyDelete"In Israel there is a prohibition against selling land to a non-Jew, thus putting the whole validity of such a sale in question."
ReplyDeleteThis is a good reason for differentiating between the bungalow and shmitah cases.
But one wonders why the charedim in Israel, who are willing to sell their chametz to non-Jews on Pesach, including the location in which it is found, are at the same time opposed to the heter mechira because of "lo techanem".
good question.
ReplyDeleteBut one wonders why the charedim in Israel, who are willing to sell their chametz to non-Jews on Pesach, including the location in which it is found, are at the same time opposed to the heter mechira because of "lo techanem".
ReplyDeleteFirst, you'd be surprised how many don't sell chametz. Second, of those who do, you'd be surprised how many rent, not sell, the land. Finally, there are a non-trivial (albeit small) number of people who don't want to rely on the Rabbanut sale but will rely on other sales.
1) The heter mechira was proposed by a minority of rabbonim who themselves only permitted it due to the extenuating circumstances that existed 100 years ago and do not exist today.
ReplyDelete2) The heter mechira, even if it is halachically valid today according to that minority opinion, would obviously only valid if the Jew utilizing took the sale SERIOUSLY.
(one simple proof that no one does is that no TABOO is ever drawn up, mas rechisha etc. etc. - the most basic things of any sale of land in the State of Israel - i.e. it is all just a sham. and BTW as was a;ready pointed out - chometz is not a sale - it is a rental. The truth is this is stil an interesting question but being that selling chometz in Israel has been done for centuries one would have to have gobs of hutzpa to question the practice wheras the question of selling EY by shemiita is a serious issue which if one reads the literature one finds that all the poskim who are matir work long and hard at finding a solution to. SO apparently they understood that there is a difference.)
Does the rabbanut only sell frum lands? Or also yet - to be religious? DO the yet to be religious take this at all seriously? DO Jews work the land afterwards? DO they treat it as their own during shmitta? (on Pesach en hochi nami - if you treat the chometz as your own - the sale is quite invalid. this is why we bar access to the places and clearly mark them as beling to a non- jew.
FYI, Rav Kook held that heter Mechira was not a good solution to be used under ordinary circumstances - his raya is we find in chazal many problems of those who were not zoheer in sheviis - no solution was proposed to sell their lands to goyim.
Even one Selling CHometz one still can be mekayem the mitzva with other chometz and the mitzva is not ne'ekar in gantzen. And en hochi nami it was only meant to be used under extenuating circumstances as well i.e. a business etc.
Most Haredim do not sell chometz gomor unless it is a giant stock like a super or a makolet or a busniess etc.
Heter Mechira says - let us just scrap one of the taryag mitzvos with a loophole.
so B'KITZUR!!! this gratuitous swipe at a psak from many Great Poskim such as R' Elyoshiv who say that TODAY (the are not challenging the minority per se, they are saying that TODAY all of the lomdus of the minority does not hold water) there is NO basis for Heter Mechira as if this is some 'Haredi' social issue and not a legitimate halakhic concern is way way out of bounds.
the comparison to hetter mechira was just to be humurous and draw attention. I even wrote that "
ReplyDeleteThe truth is that this use of the "hetter mechira" has no relevance on the validity of hetter mechira use to circumvent shmitta issues in Eretz Yisrael. In Israel there is a prohibition against selling land to a non-Jew, thus putting the whole validity of such a sale in question."