Mar 11, 2018

another thank you, maybe, to Donald Trump

I was inclined to say that we now have another thing to thank Donald Trump for, but I am not sure it is correct.

Yoelish Krausz is going on record saying to the media that if the USA goes through with its plans to move the embassy to Jerusalem, fully recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, the Neturei Karta will have no choice but to leave Israel, as its rabbinic leaders will not allow them to remain in Israel.

Initially I thought, thank you for this too Donald Trump. But thinking a bit further, I am not so sure. The place for every Jew is in the Land of Israel. Even the ones I don't like. Even the ones that make trouble.

I don't know why they would have to leave. Why does recognition form the USA change anything? The Neturei Karta people dont have to recognize Jerusalem as the capital just because the USA does. Why can't they continue to live in Eretz Yisrael just because the USA recognizes Jerusalem as the capital?

Anyways, it might be a shame if they leave, but maybe we'll clear out some of the goons from RBS B in the process. I am very torn on this.

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  1. Then they'll change their public image from Jews persecuted IN the state of Israel to Jewish refugees FROM the state of Israel. And the anti-Semites will love it.

  2. I have a theory that may sound farfetched, but hear me out:

    The Catholic Church was always opposed to Zionism. The Pope was the only leader who refused to meet Herzl- even the Ottoman Sultan and the Czar (or their representatives) at least met with him. The Pope said that as long as the Jews didn't accept Jesus, they were cursed to be exiled, and so there could be no Jewish State. And not just that they didn't support it, but that it was certain, as in prophecy, that it would never happen.

    And then came 1948 and it happened. This was a big theological crisis for them. (This is one of the "knocks" in Rav Soloveitchik's Kol Dodi Dofek.) So the Church had to find some way to recover. So their new claim was that the Jews didn't have the Old City. So they were still in exile.

    And then came 1967, and they were in a *real* pickle. The Jews now even controlled the Sepulchre itself, not to mention the Har HaBayit!

    Well, some Christians, especially the fundamentalists, made their peace with this. But the Vatican didn't. This is why they *constantly* call for Israel to give up Jerusalem. Because only then can they feel safe theologically that the Jews were wrong (rachmana litzlan) to have rejected Jesus. They even occasionally let slip that they wouldn't mind if *they*, as a supposedly "neutral" party, got to control the Old City. With the Swiss Guard patrolling or something.

    How does that relate to this? Well, anti-Zionist Jews refer to the Three Oaths. They themselves never admit this out loud, but the basis of the Oaths- only one of the three, really, which is the only one that counts here- is not that the Jews can't return to Israel, it's that they can't return to Israel *against the wishes of the non-Jews*. (By the way, like the Catholics, there actually was "da'as Torah" saying, as a certainty, that it would never happen, which led a lot of yeshiva bachurim to stop being charedi in 1948.)

    The problem is, even if you hold the Oaths are real (and many don't, of course), the Jews *did* return with the world's approval. Lots of non-Jews support Zionism, and the Balfour Declaration was issued, and the League of Nations approved, and the UN (including *both* the US *and* the USSR and France!) approved. Heck, even a bunch of Arabs and Muslims have recognized Israel. So where is a good Neturei Karta to go?

    Well, the world demands that Israel pull out of the West Bank and all of Jerusalem. So, you see, there's still that "rebellion." Ah-ha!

    But what's that? The US is moving its embassy to Jerusalem? And other countries are following suit? Uh-oh.

    Of course, that doesn't explain why they'd think they can live in Israel *now*, and can't *after.* But this isn't supposed to make sense. They just hate Israel, and so if Israel is right, they don't want any part of it.


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