MK Mosher Gafne, of the Degel HaTorah faction, warns of the dire consequences that will result if unity is not achieved inside the party.
In an interview with Chadrei Chadarim, he begins by pointing out that the general election campaign for the 18th Knesset is underway, and already, Tzipi Livni has released statements attacking the chareidi public.
CC:
Why must each campaign be based on hate for chareidim?
GAFNE:
I do not think it is based on chareidi hate, but there are other factors as well, including the fact she is still angry that she failed to build a coalition. It is hypocrisy. First she promises us a great deal and then offers nothing, then painting us as extortionists. Another reason prompting her attack is her sharp drop in the polls and her advisors pushed her to lash out at the chareidim to win the election. In addition, she is aware that Shas will go with Bibi, but not with her.
Whatever the case, the anti-chareidi issue will not dominate the election but rather security and economic concerns.
CC:
With whom will UTJ align itself following the election?
GAFNE:
We will discuss the issue based on the current realities. We do not decide in advance. At the end of the day, there is no major difference between Tzipi and Bibi. The damage that Bibi did to us as finance minister is unforgivable. Therefore, we do not express our opinion ahead of the election. We will ultimately team up with the candidate who supports the Torah world and despite her remarks at present, I do not believe that Livni will have predefined positions but will do what is politically advantageous at the time.
CC:
Of late, we have seen physical and verbal violence in our camp. What is the solution?
GAFNE:
To my joy, we are not apart of it but I do hope that Agudah will find a solution soon. After all, we are running together and if there is a faction not voting for us, we all lose. I spoke with both Porush and Litzman and told them the very same thing. The situation is absurd. The Torah world today is in the midst of an unprecedented crisis. The economic crisis impacts all of us and we are busy with internal fighting. It is unbelievable.
CC:
If Agudah does not work it out would you consider running independently, without Agudah?
GAFNE:
If this is the case, we have a big problem. We are not considering running alone at present but if Agudah does not work it out, we have a big problem.
CC:
There is talk of reorganizing the lineup towards ‘cleansing the poison’. Have you heard anything along these lines?
GAFNE:
They have not discussed such an idea with me but it does not seem realistic. Only the Gedolei HaDor make such decisions, who will be in Knesset. I do not think such a move is necessary. Whoever must leave should leave. We do not engage in such acts, such as shuffling the lists, which may present well to the public. We are busy working to save the Torah world.
CC:
Degel was founded on the shadow of complaints there are those who never leave the Knesset. Aren’t you in fact doing the same thing?
GAFNE:
I never made such claims and that is not the case. We had problems with the method by which funds were distributed to Anash and today, things are different. The system has changed [for the better]. Today funds are distributed to the chareidi population without regard to sectors. To change us, why? Rav Shach always said why replace a person with experience.
CC:
It has been 20 years since Degel was founded. Any words in summary at this time?
GAFNE:
A summation is done at the end. We are in the midst of the process. We are becoming stronger and our ideology is gaining momentum in a growing number of communities. This is not the time for summations – we save this for the end.
CC:
There are those who feel chareidi parties are the cause of much hate and disdain, feeling it may be beneficial to join secular parties with the understanding the religious status quo would remain ‘as is’. How do you view this issue?
GAFNE:
One making such claims does not understand what he is talking about and is totally unaware of the day-to-day battles that we wage. There are major problems that an outsider is not capable of understanding — issues of ideology and funding that a non-frum person is incapable of understanding. Eliminate chareidi parties. Those who say this haven’t the slightest idea what they are talking about.
CC:
Of late, a new entity is forming, an entity with a ‘good name’ composed of people who are from our camp, from Degel. What is your feeling on this?
GAFNE:
In Betar, they still have not paid attention to them. They have not noticed this important phenomenon. In the election we took notice and despite efforts to launch a nationwide party, we prevented this from becoming reality. We also hoped to halt it in Bet Shemesh, but this did not occur. To the heart of the matter, I feel we must find a solution. I personally spend a considerable amount of time on seeking a solution for these people. But they too must understand that a person who lives a certain lifestyle must send his child to an appropriate framework. Therefore, there are different talmidei torah and each person must send children to the appropriate institution.
These people are ‘us’ and we feel their pain. There are a number of people who are ideologically motivated, acting on the party that was, now paying the price for not adhering to the words of Gedolei Yisrael. They have no place in Degel HaTorah. These people are unwelcome. I think that at the end, they also ran independently in Bet Shemesh due to their ideological leanings, not because of a crisis pertaining to mosdos limud (schools). (end)
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Honestly I don't know how after reading this article how I would be able to vote for "THAT" type of party. The tone and the content of the interview just made me nauseous. Also it illustrated this mentality on how he claimed in the end that they don't want any of ideological TOV voters is plain arrogance. Also what chutzpa to say that there will never be a chance for new members to become a MK, for as he mentioned that after all didn't Rav Shach value experience! Well besides the issue of the corrupting power of absolute power, what about the little thing called democracy. And also who is claiming that the best person is the one with the most experience (and of course the family connections) well its the MK with the family connections and experience that came with it! And the obvious tone the permeates the whole entire interview is you can't criticize us because we ARE daas torah. Obviously from this with can infer that anybody not from Aguda or Degel is automatically not daas torah, hence you are assur from voting for a party like TOV. Well good thing I don't live in Israel now, because I don't know how I would be able to handle all this hypocracy...
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ReplyDeleteMK Mosher Gafne, of the Degel HaTorah faction, warns of the dire consequences that will result if unity is not achieved inside the party.
In an interview with Chadrei Chadarim, he begins by pointing out that the general election campaign for the 18th Knesset is underway, and already, Tzipi Livni has released statements attacking the chareidi public.
CC:
Why must each campaign be based on hate for chareidim?
GAFNE:
I do not think it is based on chareidi hate, but there are other factors as well, including the fact she is still angry that she failed to build a coalition. It is hypocrisy. First she promises us a great deal and then offers nothing, then painting us as extortionists. Another reason prompting her attack is her sharp drop in the polls and her advisors pushed her to lash out at the chareidim to win the election. In addition, she is aware that Shas will go with Bibi, but not with her.
Whatever the case, the anti-chareidi issue will not dominate the election but rather security and economic concerns.
CC:
With whom will UTJ align itself following the election?
GAFNE:
We will discuss the issue based on the current realities. We do not decide in advance. At the end of the day, there is no major difference between Tzipi and Bibi. The damage that Bibi did to us as finance minister is unforgivable. Therefore, we do not express our opinion ahead of the election. We will ultimately team up with the candidate who supports the Torah world and despite her remarks at present, I do not believe that Livni will have predefined positions but will do what is politically advantageous at the time.
CC:
Of late, we have seen physical and verbal violence in our camp. What is the solution?
GAFNE:
To my joy, we are not apart of it but I do hope that Agudah will find a solution soon. After all, we are running together and if there is a faction not voting for us, we all lose. I spoke with both Porush and Litzman and told them the very same thing. The situation is absurd. The Torah world today is in the midst of an unprecedented crisis. The economic crisis impacts all of us and we are busy with internal fighting. It is unbelievable.
CC:
If Agudah does not work it out would you consider running independently, without Agudah?
GAFNE:
If this is the case, we have a big problem. We are not considering running alone at present but if Agudah does not work it out, we have a big problem.
CC:
There is talk of reorganizing the lineup towards ‘cleansing the poison’. Have you heard anything along these lines?
GAFNE:
They have not discussed such an idea with me but it does not seem realistic. Only the Gedolei HaDor make such decisions, who will be in Knesset. I do not think such a move is necessary. Whoever must leave should leave. We do not engage in such acts, such as shuffling the lists, which may present well to the public. We are busy working to save the Torah world.
CC:
Degel was founded on the shadow of complaints there are those who never leave the Knesset. Aren’t you in fact doing the same thing?
GAFNE:
I never made such claims and that is not the case. We had problems with the method by which funds were distributed to Anash and today, things are different. The system has changed [for the better]. Today funds are distributed to the chareidi population without regard to sectors. To change us, why? Rav Shach always said why replace a person with experience.
CC:
It has been 20 years since Degel was founded. Any words in summary at this time?
GAFNE:
A summation is done at the end. We are in the midst of the process. We are becoming stronger and our ideology is gaining momentum in a growing number of communities. This is not the time for summations – we save this for the end.
CC:
There are those who feel chareidi parties are the cause of much hate and disdain, feeling it may be beneficial to join secular parties with the understanding the religious status quo would remain ‘as is’. How do you view this issue?
GAFNE:
One making such claims does not understand what he is talking about and is totally unaware of the day-to-day battles that we wage. There are major problems that an outsider is not capable of understanding — issues of ideology and funding that a non-frum person is incapable of understanding. Eliminate chareidi parties. Those who say this haven’t the slightest idea what they are talking about.
CC:
Of late, a new entity is forming, an entity with a ‘good name’ composed of people who are from our camp, from Degel. What is your feeling on this?
GAFNE:
In Betar, they still have not paid attention to them. They have not noticed this important phenomenon. In the election we took notice and despite efforts to launch a nationwide party, we prevented this from becoming reality. We also hoped to halt it in Bet Shemesh, but this did not occur. To the heart of the matter, I feel we must find a solution. I personally spend a considerable amount of time on seeking a solution for these people. But they too must understand that a person who lives a certain lifestyle must send his child to an appropriate framework. Therefore, there are different talmidei torah and each person must send children to the appropriate institution.
These people are ‘us’ and we feel their pain. There are a number of people who are ideologically motivated, acting on the party that was, now paying the price for not adhering to the words of Gedolei Yisrael. They have no place in Degel HaTorah. These people are unwelcome. I think that at the end, they also ran independently in Bet Shemesh due to their ideological leanings, not because of a crisis pertaining to mosdos limud (schools). (end)
------------
Honestly I don't know how after reading this article how I would be able to vote for "THAT" type of party. The tone and the content of the interview just made me nauseous. Also it illustrated this mentality on how he claimed in the end that they don't want any of ideological TOV voters is plain arrogance. Also what chutzpa to say that there will never be a chance for new members to become a MK, for as he mentioned that after all didn't Rav Shach value experience! Well besides the issue of the corrupting power of absolute power, what about the little thing called democracy. And also who is claiming that the best person is the one with the most experience (and of course the family connections) well its the MK with the family connections and experience that came with it! And the obvious tone the permeates the whole entire interview is you can't criticize us because we ARE daas torah. Obviously from this with can infer that anybody not from Aguda or Degel is automatically not daas torah, hence you are assur from voting for a party like TOV. Well good thing I don't live in Israel now, because I don't know how I would be able to handle all this hypocracy...
I saw the interview in the original Hebrew on Bechadrei. I did not notice Gafni commenting on the beit hashalom dispute though.. :-)
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