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Feb 3, 2025
Kiddush Drinking Problem (video)
1. I keep hearing about this problem but I've never seen it. Where does it exist? I dont see it in the shuls I have davened in in Israel (where I live), and I never saw it in the shuls I have davened in in the USA. I have seen alcohol at kiddushes and I have seen people have some lechaims, but never getting drunk and plastered the way it is described here. Is this a Flatbush problem? a Five Towns problem? A Boca problem? where? I have definitely heard plenty of rabbis and others talking about this as if it is a real problem, but where is it happening? what type of shuls or communities?
2. People sleep too much shabbos afternoon and suffer from naplag Saturday night and Sunday, even without getting drunk.. I am not sure the problem she described is the worst part of people regularly getting drunk.
3. I have heard people say that this is not the problem but is a symptom of what is already a bad marriage. I dont know. What do you think? I think maybe in some cases that may be true, in other cases this may be the result of other problems or this may be the problem itself. I am not sure one can just say what is or isnt the problem. It could be different in each case (I dont know because I dont know who suffers from this as per my first point). Having that much alcohol and pimped out kiddushes though is setting an environment that makes this possible.
4. I have heard, in several discussion groups I follow where this came up, some of the people attack her saying she is at fault, husband has to come home and listen to her so of course he drinks, and other nasty things like that without knowing her or her husband and their situation. I think some people discussing this have taken it too personally and maybe feel connected to it somehow and get defensive
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The plural of anecdote is not data, but we seem not to seek data since it might require us to act differently.
ReplyDeletebsorot tovot
Joel rich
"naplag" -- that's a new one. I guess it's like jetlag, but without flying anywhere.
ReplyDeleteright. it is the feeling similar to jetlag but from taking a nap the entire shabbos afternoon.
DeleteHow frequently do you go the the States? It's definitely a 5 Towns problem, an Englewood problem, and a Chicago problem. I mention those three places because I have relatives in the last two places and friends in the first.
ReplyDeletein the last 3 years I have been to the USA about 6-7 times per year, but for shabbos only a few times. usually my work trips are about 4 days long. so I havent been there in the right places to see it. and even when I recently spent shabbos in Chicago I guess I was in the wrong shuls (or the right ones, but not to see this behavior)
DeleteThere is a breakaway shul in Englewood from one of the 3 main shuls. Part of why they broke off was to be able to drink חופשי around davening.
DeleteI think the issue is more that it appears to be accepted when it happens. Unlike, for example, using the eiruv or opening soda bottles. The claim is that there need to be voices saying “this is not ok”.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is not really the prevalence. But the fact that it seems unchecked.
The drinkers in our shul do kiddush club during the leining so the alcohol helps them sleep through the sermon.
ReplyDeleteThis post generated more comments than any other post I can remember. Interesting very interesting
ReplyDelete