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Aug 1, 2011

Interesting Psak: Ashkenazi Minhag HaMakom

Recently we have heard in the news a number of stories of specific minhogim being enforced in yeshivas on boys who have their own, different customs.

The really strange situations are when the yeshiva is sefardi but enforces ashkenazi customs, as an attempt to look more ashkenazi and attract "better" students. However, while those situations were recently in the news a few times, those are not the only minhag-changing situations happening.

Kikar is reporting that the rosh yeshova of an ashkenazi yeshiva went to Rav Elyashiv to ask about the sefardic students in his majority-ashkenazi yeshiva, and what customs they should be keeping.

When I went to yeshiva, everybody kept their own minhogim, and everybody accepted what everyone else was doing, and all was good. In yeshiva high school I wore a tallis as a yekke, along with a couple other boys, while a few guys wore gartels, and a few sefardim wore tallis and shaved during the "Three Weeks". Everybody did their own thing, and everybody got along just fine.

In yeshiva as well, in the yeshiva I learned at in Israel, there were plenty of sefardim, along with representatives of numerous European backgrounds and customs. Again, everybody did their own minhag, and nobody cared. It did not bother me to see a sefardi boy shave during the Three Weeks, and it did not bother them to see me only say one week of selichos in Elul while they had to get up early for a month and go to a local sefardi minyan.

Not only did we all [mostly] get along and live together [mostly] harmoniously, but it was probably beneficial to all to see that other people did things differently and we could all still get along and respect each other.

The Shailoh

So, this rosh yeshiva goes to Rav Elyashiv and asks a shailoh about the sefardi boys in his yeshiva. He asks if he should allow them to each do according to their own minhag, and allow sefardi students to shave during the Three Weeks, or should he insist that they keep the minhag of the majority of the yeshiva and not shave during the Three Weeks.

Interesting Psak from Rav Elyashiv

Rav Elyashiv reportedly responded that the sefardi boys have to accept the minhag of the ashkenazim as that is the majority in the yeshiva, and they should not shave during the Three Weeks. Rav Elyashiv's reason was that the ashkenazi yeshiva with it's own minhogim is considered it's own place, and when one goes to a different location, he must keep the minhogim of the local place. Furthermore, one who does not adapt and  keep the local minhogim but insists on shaving, is a poretz geder and should be treated with a heavy hand.

Yeshiva Minhogim

Besides for the psak itself and it's ramifications, this psak is interesting to me because it assumes the yeshiva has such established uniform minhogim. The only "yeshiva minhogim" I remember from yeshiva days were certain davening issues, nusach the chazzan would use, scheduling issues, and the like. I don't remember ever seeing minhogim that are more personal in nature taking on any semblance of uniformity.

I even remember that when it was time to light candles on Channukah, there were some boys who lit at sunset, and some who lit at tzeis. There was no such thing as the yeshiva minhag on such personal issues. People acted in accordance with their own minhagim, and everybody accepted that. This psak now says the yeshiva has official minhogim even in the personal realm, and everyone must adhere.

9 comments:

  1. huh? Yeshiva students shaving at all, 3 weeks or no 3 weeks? Nothing about the question makes sense. Why would they be allowed in Yeshiva at all if they shave?

    ReplyDelete
  2. "The 3 weeks" is an Ashkenazic minhag. The Sephardim observe "the 9 days." So Sephardim shave, listen to music, etc. between 17 Tammuz and Rosh Chodesh Av.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Abbi - not sure what the issue is. most yeshiva guys shave, at least until a bit older of an age or they get engaged, and even then many shave..

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anon, I think you're mistaken, at least in the case of many Sephardim I know. They don't even have the 9 Days. They have "Shavua shchal bo," the week of Tisha B'Av.

    I went to an American charedi litvishe yeshiva. But there were several Sephardi boys as well. Even though they lived in chu"l, they only kept 1 day of yom tov while in Israel. So for us, Simchas Torah was a day later than for them. So they took pictures during hakafos. No one tried to stop them, it wasn't yom tov for them!

    ReplyDelete
  5. This is something I haven't been able to understand... why are these boys not going to Yeshivot that hold by their Minhagim and/or Hashkafot?

    Is there such a void of Sephardi Yeshivot that they have to go to Ashkenazi Yeshivot? How will they learn their Minhagim and their history, aside from what their parents may teach?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Pesky,
    This is something I haven't been able to understand... why should there be Yeshivot only for boys that hold specific Minhagim and/or Hashkafot?

    Is there such a diference in the Torah that Moshe gave, or the Gemara that there needs to be separate Yeshivot for Sephardim and for Ashkenazim? How about separate yeshivot for Polish, Lithuanean, Yekkes, Hungarian, Romanian, Chassidim, misnagdim - since they all have different minhagim?

    How will our kids learn that Torah was given to all klal Yisrael - and not just one specific group?

    ReplyDelete
  7. pesky -I disagree. There is nothing wrong with sefardim learning in ashkenazi yeshivas, and nothing wrong with ashkenazim learning in sefardi yeshivas (though far less common).
    As a matter of fact, it is a shame there is such a thing as "sefardi" and "asheknazi" yeshivas at all. it should just be yeshivas.

    but while there are such specific yeshivas, I would say that there are many reasons why a sefardi boy might prefer an ashkenazi yeshiva such as:
    -better yeshiva
    - friends go there
    - better reputation
    -better for shidduchim
    -a sepecific rebbe he likes
    - location (close to home, far from home, etc)
    or many other reasons

    ReplyDelete
  8. When I served my period of שרות חובה בצה"ל and consequently during my annual periods of מילואים I marvelled at the army's נוסח אחיד.

    It may not have been all things to all men, but it certainly prevented a lot of meaningless argument over מנהגים שונים למיניהם

    ReplyDelete
  9. But when you have Ashkenazi rabbis dictating to their Sephardi students (like the guy who walked out of a wedding because the Chattan refused to follow Ashkenazi Minhag), then there IS a need because the rabbis sure as heck aren't going to change.

    ReplyDelete

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