Oct 22, 2008


The TOV party of Bet Shemesh put out the following publication right before the holiday about the upcoming elections. I did not get a chance to post it earlier, and I apologize, but here it is now...


  1. Can you, in a nutshell, explain what they stand for? I read their list but those things sound so basic, Im sure all the parties are interested in them. And if not directly interested, are any parties against them?

    Why do they need their own candidate? Why cant they just make requests in the iriyah like everyone else?

    Is our iriyah so corrupt that if we want proper sewage system we need to field a new political party?

    If we want to expand shuls which will service all the people in the neighborhoods, we need our own party?

    The noise and balagan in the park is not going anywhere any time soon. Its unfortunate. But its probably only going to get worse as more and more people make aliyah with kids aged 10-17.

    Basically all of their issues are just one big complaint that this iriyah (maybe all the iriyot of this country) are so corrupt and accomplish nothing except give some people money and others power. (Hmmm, sounds like the national government as well)

    But, seriously, is that the big problem here?

  2. TOV exists because you need to be inside the government as much as possible to be taken seriously. Currently there is NO party that represents the basic interests of the Ramah and our communities.
    We hope to fix that - as much as possible.

  3. So is this a "Ramah" party? Why should a non-Ramah member of Beit Shemesh vote or you?

    Mendy has very publicaly stated his support for Shalom Lerner- why should I vote for Tov rather then Yachad?

  4. I am not speaking for TOV or for mendy. they can come and give different answers. I will try to answer this based on my thoughts and what I have heard informally from various people within TOV.

    The mayoral vote and the party vote are two separate votes, and just because you support Shalom lerner for mayor does not mean you need to vote for his party - Yachad (though it also does not mean you should not).

    TOV has taken no official position on whom to support for mayor. Some people, Mendy included, support lerner, and some support Abutbol. When Mendy says to vote Lerner, that is Mendy speaking and not TOV.

    Perhaps Mendy or Tov bet Shemesh or someone else from TOV can confirm that or deny it or explain better.

    Why som,eone not from the ramah should vote TOV is a good question considering everything they say is about the ramah... TBS?

  5. Which rabbonim are behind Tov? I noticed that there isnt any listed. Is this an oversight, or are the rabonim not behind them?

  6. TOV's platform sounds like a typical resume: "Managing...", "Improving...", "Expanding...", "Creating...", etc. A load of fluff without any substance. Why not put out a flyer with a real game plan, not just a list of gripes?

  7. blackbelt, thats what i was saying in the first anon post here. Its a list of complaints. I like your comparison to a resume. Interesting to note that they claim they are for the working people of RBSA, so that would make sense. I am sure they have a lot of experience with resumes

  8. it might be a list of gripes, but if in 10 years of RBS existence people have been kvetching about these things and not a single party has ever worked to resolve any of these issues, than maybe there is room for a new party who will....

  9. Why do they think they will be successful? Why do they think that they will be able to crack the corruption, misuse of power and thickheadedness that seems to run this city?

    A) Arent these people busy? They dont strike me as the askanim type. The chareidi askanim - like em or hate em - have plenty of time on their hands to make their voices heard and start trouble.

    B) Do these folks have any experience in ISRAELI politics and inter-group fighting? I am sure they are able to mitigate a business meeting, or make negotiations on mega deals -- but this is Israel and its a whole new ballgame. No offense to mendy, but hes the only one I heard of on his list, but this is not Baltimore.

    C) I see a whole list of different shuls on the list. What does the Eish kodesh rebbe have to say about TOV? How about rav malinowitz? Ahavas torah is under rav goldstein. what does he say?

    D) random question here. In america, the chareidim dont try to get into the government. They try to weasel as much as they could out of the local reps. Why dont we try that here? Why your own party to get ONE seat?

  10. isnt the corruption over? Both of those running against vaknin, Abutbol and lerner (plus the other 3 candidates who dropped out), are both running on the platform of ending the corruption.
    So maybe now they will be bale to get ti done...

  11. To address the comments made:

    These are not gripes and complaints. They are real issues that we feel have not been dealt with on any level.

    Will we succeed to break the "corruption" and "politics"?
    I don't know.
    But I do know, that if we do not try, then we will for sure not succeed.

    As for Rabbinic support, I urge you to ask the Rabbonim you mentioned about TOV and see what they say. I can not speak for any of them, although I have spoken to most of them personally about TOV.

    As for focus on the Ramah, I will not deny that our primary focus right now is on the Ramah because it suffers from the least representation. However, we hope to use our forum and seat(s) to help address all the issues that affect everyone in the city.

    Our efforts until now have already made all the current politicians in the city take our community seriously. And that itself is a great accomplishment.
    Now we need to move forward with the elections and all the work ahead of us. Anyone can promise anything, but we hope, B'ezrat Hashem, to do our best to deliver on as much as possible.

  12. please could the tov party tell us about their 6 candidates. I specifically would like to know where the daven, where they work and where they send their kids to school.

    that would give me an idea whether they represent me.

  13. i think that some of the "rabbonim" mentioned benefit from vaknin's style of politics. who among us hasn't seen the material benefits they've enjoyed.

  14. Rafi-
    What is this about the top three splitting the seat? Is that standard in israel?

  15. it i fairly common to have rotation agreements when you need different people or factions to all work together....
    degel and aguda have agreements about who will get which seat when and they have rotations on some of their positions...

  16. Does Chen also have a rotation agreement? I mean does EJ have a real chance of actually getting elected?

  17. I spoke to Zvi of CHEN and he said they do not have a formal agreement in place, but they are informally talking about the possibility.

  18. rotating between 3 people just serves to show how futile Tov is. Term is 5 years long. What city portfolios and/or projects do they expect to manage effectively this way? How do they expect the other council members to take them seriously?
    While rotations are common, they are never more than two way.

  19. I am leaning towards mafdal bc I am having a hard time voting for TOV knowing what i know about Toras Eliyahu and knowing that one of their candidates sends his kids there.

    This is of upmost importance to me.

    if anyone can tell me that he has taken his kids out of that school then i might consider re-examining my vote. Otherwise, my conscience says otherwise.


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