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May 25, 2010
Rav Yaakov Yosef weighs in on the Chinuch Atzmai discrimination
I don't know why this has not made the general news, or the Haredi news websites, but it is a very interesting incident in the fight Yoav Lalum is waging against Chinuch Atzmai, on a number of fronts including Emannuel, Bet Shemesh and Netivot (and maybe more) regarding alleged discrimination in their acceptance policies in member schools.
The only place I saw the article (I might have missed it elsewhere, but I looked and didn't see it) was from a link someone sent to me for the article on the "secret" Haredim WAP website (they shut down their regular site, but kept their WAP site operating).
A meeting was arranged between Chinuch Atzmai representatives, including Rav Batzri (as a sefardi with grandkids in the CA system) and Rav Dovid Bloi (a rep of CA) who met with Rav Yaakov Yosef, the son of Rav Ovadiah who is also a backer of Lalum.
The objective of the meeting was to try to convince Rav Yosef to have Lalum pull his suit against Chinch Atzmai and in exchange they would reach a satisfactory agreement for what is happening in Emannuel.
The meeting exploded very quickly when Rav Yaakov Yosef immediately proved that discrimination is rampant in Chinuch Atzmai when he showed that even someone as great as Rav Batzri could not get his grandkids in to a Chinuch Atzmai school until he himself personally made some phone calls and applied protexia.
Rav Yosef then related a story that had happened 40 years prior with his father, Rav Ovadiah. He related that 40 years ago the heads of Chinuch Atzmai requested that Rav Ovadia help them with sme fundraising efforts. He agreed to do so on condition that they would accept the children of his students into Chincuh Atzmai schools.
After everything was agreed upon, Rav Ovadiah went and fulfilled his obligations, yet when the parents applied to the schools, the CA system ignored their promises and refused to accept them.
Rav Bloi, according to the article, realized he was not going to get anywhere by claiming there is no discrimination, chose to use a different approach. He tried to persuade Rav Yosef that there is what to discuss but there is no reason the war needs to be waged in the secular court system.
If what he said until now was not great enough, the next response was fantastic.
Rav Yosef responded that when a meshugganer throws stones at you, you don't wait to invite him to beis din, you immediately call the police. The discrimination, he said, is a craziness (shee'gaon), and a sickness, and that is how it must be dealt with.
The only place I saw the article (I might have missed it elsewhere, but I looked and didn't see it) was from a link someone sent to me for the article on the "secret" Haredim WAP website (they shut down their regular site, but kept their WAP site operating).
A meeting was arranged between Chinuch Atzmai representatives, including Rav Batzri (as a sefardi with grandkids in the CA system) and Rav Dovid Bloi (a rep of CA) who met with Rav Yaakov Yosef, the son of Rav Ovadiah who is also a backer of Lalum.
The objective of the meeting was to try to convince Rav Yosef to have Lalum pull his suit against Chinch Atzmai and in exchange they would reach a satisfactory agreement for what is happening in Emannuel.
The meeting exploded very quickly when Rav Yaakov Yosef immediately proved that discrimination is rampant in Chinuch Atzmai when he showed that even someone as great as Rav Batzri could not get his grandkids in to a Chinuch Atzmai school until he himself personally made some phone calls and applied protexia.
Rav Yosef then related a story that had happened 40 years prior with his father, Rav Ovadiah. He related that 40 years ago the heads of Chinuch Atzmai requested that Rav Ovadia help them with sme fundraising efforts. He agreed to do so on condition that they would accept the children of his students into Chincuh Atzmai schools.
After everything was agreed upon, Rav Ovadiah went and fulfilled his obligations, yet when the parents applied to the schools, the CA system ignored their promises and refused to accept them.
Rav Bloi, according to the article, realized he was not going to get anywhere by claiming there is no discrimination, chose to use a different approach. He tried to persuade Rav Yosef that there is what to discuss but there is no reason the war needs to be waged in the secular court system.
If what he said until now was not great enough, the next response was fantastic.
Rav Yosef responded that when a meshugganer throws stones at you, you don't wait to invite him to beis din, you immediately call the police. The discrimination, he said, is a craziness (shee'gaon), and a sickness, and that is how it must be dealt with.
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Wow. That response just took my breath away.
ReplyDeletewhat is a WAP site?
ReplyDeletea site that is only accessible via the cellular phone using the cellular carrier internet access.
ReplyDeleteI personaly heard him(ryy)call ashkanazys natzis...
ReplyDeleteIn a class m. Shabbas in beit vegan...
ReplyDeleteanon - I am curious, what was the context?
ReplyDeleteThe more I hear about Rav Yaakov Yosef, the more I like him (ben porat yosef).
ReplyDeleteIf we are nazis, why do you want to be in our school system?
ReplyDeleteTheres a man with his actions in sync with what he says
i really dont think bringing up an issue 40 years old is the way to go.
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDeleteso you think sephardiim shouldn't be let in?
Are you saying the schools aren't discriminatory or that they are but that the sephardiim should accept the discrimination and not try to change the system, after all, you are discriminating for good reason, right? They aren't Aryan enough to attend school with your Aryan children.
No, the way. Its not bc of racism.
ReplyDeleteThere are different levels of frumkeit. There are different levels of how people run their homes.
What does that have to do with racism?
What does that have to do with Aryan?
Would you allow an arab into your school? If not, are you racist?
It always amazes me how people can talk such trash abotu chareidim, and how they dont think, and are just puppets and just repeat what the "gedoilim" say - and yet, and yet when it comes to this issue, these same people cant seem to add 1+1=2. I am truly astounded.
And to make the point clear, in case you didnt understand --
ReplyDeleteWhen Beis Yaakovs have over 1/3 of their students sefardi, no I dont think thats discrimination.
And my question was pointed at RYY - why do you want your kids in a school with "nazis" ? Why is this a school system that you (and evidentally a lot of sefardim like you) think is superior to the Shas / sefardi school system? I mean, if they are nazis, and still more preferable that the sefardi schools, what does that say about the sefardi schools? No wonder the sefardim dont wanna sent there. I know I wouldnt want to send to a school thats worse than a nazi school.
so sephardi=less frum?
ReplyDeleteDo sephardiim have to prove their frumkeit more then ashkenaziim? if so, then yes, that is racist.
If they are equally frum and not accepted is that not racist?
Just because the admissions group and other machers who run the system may be racist and prevent sephardi kids from getting a good education does not make it a school full of nazis. Frankly I think calling people nazis is an insult to the victims of real nazis. But, that doesn't change the long history and present reality that sephardiim are treated worse because they are sephardiim.
Having spent a good amount of time around frum ashkenazim, both in and out of Israel, I am shocked at how real the racisim is towards sephardiim and how little the ashkenazim admit it as a racial problem.
Is racisim defined by the people in power or the people out of power who feel like they are the victims of racisim.
Or do you believe that you get to treat people however you like and it is their job to accept it without you caring how they feel about your treatment of them?fie
"Would you allow an arab into your school?"
ReplyDeleteTwo differences: 1) Sefardim don't want me dead, 2) The Torah prohibition of lo tisgodedu applies to all Jews but not to Arabs.