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Jul 1, 2013
Smartphones can be returned, but not to a mashgiach
Until now, smartphones in the haredi news have always been negative and prohibited. Exceptions [for work] were not openly discussed. They were just prohibited. To the point that someone who uses a smartphone could not get an aliya, could not be a witness at a wedding, would be excluded from shofar blowing, musicians can't be hired to play at affairs, etc. None of those instances, at least the way they were reported, ever included an exception for someone using the smartphone for valid work needs.
Now, Rav Efrati, has added to the list saying that mashgichim working for his kashrus organization (dealing mostly with certifying fruits and vegetables) could not continue working in such a capacity if they use a "non-kosher" phone.
At the same time, Rav Nissim Karelitz was a bit more flexible. An avreich in Bnei Braq who had found a smartphone in the street asked Rav Karelitz what to do with it - is he allowed to return it to the owner?
Rav Karelitz did not tell him to destroy it, or that it is prohibited to return. Rather, Rav Karelitz told him to find out whether the owner needs it for his parnassa - and if he does, it should be returned to him.
So, if you find a smartphone, you can possibly return it, but not if the owner is a mashgiach working for Rav Efrati...
Now, Rav Efrati, has added to the list saying that mashgichim working for his kashrus organization (dealing mostly with certifying fruits and vegetables) could not continue working in such a capacity if they use a "non-kosher" phone.
At the same time, Rav Nissim Karelitz was a bit more flexible. An avreich in Bnei Braq who had found a smartphone in the street asked Rav Karelitz what to do with it - is he allowed to return it to the owner?
Rav Karelitz did not tell him to destroy it, or that it is prohibited to return. Rather, Rav Karelitz told him to find out whether the owner needs it for his parnassa - and if he does, it should be returned to him.
So, if you find a smartphone, you can possibly return it, but not if the owner is a mashgiach working for Rav Efrati...
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So according to this story Rav Karelitz told someone not to perform a Mitzvah Di'oiraisa because he happens to hold that the item might not be "kosher"?
ReplyDeleteIt's no wonder the Jewish world is increasingly disgusted by Charedim.
If you find a box of cigarettes, with someone's name and number on it, is it a mitzvah to return it or an avera. If you find some weed on the street, if you find out that it is for medical purposes, give it back. But if you find out it is for social purposes?
DeleteOf course it's a Mitzvah. Go read Mishpatim and come back and tell us differently. I find it absolutely disgusting that someone can be mevatel a mitzvah di'ohraisa based on his (or his Rav's) opinion about the status of the item.
Deletelshitaso, if the phone is assur, "treif" or avoda zara, or whatever type of michshol he might consider it, it would be assur to return. that is a halacha in hashavas aveida.
ReplyDeleteSo, according to him, I am pasul l'eidus because I own an iPad, and according to me, he's pasul because he's a ganuv. What a wonderful world we live in!
ReplyDeleteAvi, before you go hyper. Is Rav Karelitz your rabbi? I think Rafi just posted about not following personal psaks that are turned into blanket psaks and FWIW, I think this psak is for the Haredi community because, not to mezalzel, are not ready for smartphones.
ReplyDeleteOf course he's not my Rabbi. That's my point. He's causing people who follow his psak to steal. They don't consider it stealing, of course, but when the vast majority of Rabbeim disagree with you, perhaps you shouldn't advocate what looks like theft to the rest of the known world.
DeleteIt is amazing that the proponents of the "ban smartphones" approach do not even consider a possibility of owning a smartphone AND using it responsibly. The whole idea of bechira simply does not exist in their worldview. This is beyond sad.
ReplyDeleteactually the idea that people, especially students/teenagers, can't handle a smartphone, or that mobile devices have severe side effects, is not exclusively a chareidi idea. i was told by non-jewish friends in the US of schools which don't allow smartphones, ipads, and even laptops on campus. b'sheva had an article about dati leumi schools which restrict them as well.
DeleteBen, mashgichim are usually adults - not students/teenagers, so are eidim by the chuppah. The chances of the lost phone owner being an adult are, at least, equal to him being a teen.
DeleteAs far as idea that pple "can't handle a smartphone" - how is it different from a statement that "pple can't handle money (without stealing), intimacy (without violating laws of nidah)", etc?
I am the first to agree that learning how to exercise one's bechira is not easy, and teaching our kids to do it is way harder, but this is the only way possible.