Mar 28, 2017

mehadrin matza that is not shmura matza





in the first picture above you can 2 versions of matza made by the "Yerushalmi" brand. one is matza shmura and one is not shmura but "mehudarot". both have the hechsher of the badatz eida.

My question is:
a. I am surprised that Eida gives a hechsher on non-shmura matza. any comment?
b. what is mehudar matza, if not shmura?

In the other picture are two other brands of non-shmura matza.
my question is if you look at the prices and compare it to the prices of Yerushalmi in the first picture, you'll see a  very significant difference in price, even taking into account the different sizes of the packages.

I get the significant difference in price between the shmura matza and the non-shmura matza, but why is there such a major difference in price between yerushalmi non-shmura and the other non-shmuras? Even if it would cost a little more for the brand name and for the hechsher - so much more?

thoughts?

I am pretty sure only a marketer at the Eida could figure out how to call flour and water that isnt shmura matza "mehudarot"


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12 comments:

  1. What a sad day. Shmura matza for the whole chag is a minhag. And now you are claiming that if isn't shmura it isn't mehudar?

    Of course there are mehadrin non-shmura matzos. Take the standard US matzos such as Streit's, etc. They are not "18 minute matzos". I'm not really sure what that means, but people who are mehadrin do not use them.

    Back in the day, KAJ would have a special run in the US of "18-minute matzos", but that has been superseded by the badatz matzos which are always "18 minute"

    ReplyDelete
  2. JS - you misunderstood. I am not saying the non shmura isnt mehadrin. Mehadrin means, as far as I know, "more kosher" than just the basic. I would think that is shmura. What does mehadrin matza include that non mehadrin matza does not include, if not for the issue of shmura?

    I thought more than 18 minutes is chametz. you are saying more than 18 is kosher for pesach and less than 18 is mehadrin? I dont remember ever hearing that before

    ReplyDelete
  3. and what is the difference between these mehadrin non shmura matzas and the other brands non shmura that makes the price variance so great?

    ReplyDelete
  4. forgot to add to the first comment - i.e. non shmur ais perfectly kosher in my mind. but what gives it the status of "mehadrin". if that is mehadrin, what is regular kosher?

    ReplyDelete
  5. I'm guessing that the Mehudar Matza stops the line every 18 minutes, and the clean (or replace) all the components that come in contact with the Matza (I think the Yad Binyamin Factory was the first to implement this).

    Regular mas-produced Matza machines run all day and they only clean the machines at the end of each day, but use non-stick surfaces so the dough want stick, but should a minute amount of dough stick to the machine, it is Bitul B'60.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Chametz isn't Bitul at any ratio.

      Delete
    2. Before pesach chametz is batul

      Delete
    3. I think that all proper matzah making means shutting everything down to wash every 18 min and the reason there are two lines in the factory so that one is always working.

      Delete
  6. Avi: You are wrong. Before Pesach, it is batel. Rafi: It is very simple. Mehudar has to do with supervision/standards of the product. With regard to many aspects of the production process of matza, there are issues that can be treated lekula or lechumra, the example by Michael Sedley being one of them. The mehudar matzas have a stricter production process. This has nothing to do with the wheat being shamur misha'as ketzira, which I would not even call mehudar.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The OU has an explanation of what the hidur of "18 minute matzos" is:


    18-Minute Matzah/Cleanup of the Matzah Bakery

    In current matzah parlance, “18-minute matzah” means that the entire matzah line is cleaned every 18 minutes; this includes mixing utensils, table or conveyor lines, matzah cutters and scorers (dockers) and every other surface that comes in contact with the dough. The result is a product that has not just been baked in less than 18 minutes, but one that has also not come in contact with any dough older than 18 minutes. However, this special time-sensitive cleaning process can be challenging, particularly when dealing with older matzah-making equipment that is pitted or has cracks and crannies.

    Cleaning the matzah line every 18 minutes produces a mehudar (halachically superior) product, as long as each clean-up process is thorough, i.e., that every matzah crumb and all residue are removed. If, however, if any residual material remains after an imperfect clean-up, the matzah produced on that line is considered of an inferior kashrut standard. According to the principle of eisek (continual handling), as long as the equipment is operating, any residual pieces will not become chametz. Consequently, if there were no shutdown every 18 minutes, any residual material in continuous motion would not compromise the system. However, if the equipment is stopped without it being completely cleaned, the residual material will be rendered chametz and could adversely impact the “18 minute matzah”.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cleaning the matzah line every 18 minutes produces a mehudar (halachically superior) product...

      Halachically, a Matzah is either Chometz or not Chometz. It is an absolute determination, not relative.

      If, however, if any residual material remains after an imperfect clean-up, the matzah produced on that line is considered of an inferior kashrut standard.

      A Chametz Matzah is 100% Kosher, according to every opinion. It just happens to be forbidden to eat on Pesach. Similar to how cow's milk is 100% Kosher, but you can't eat it with meat.

      I hate when people mix up these different terms and issues. It just causes confusion.

      Delete

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