Mar 13, 2014

you can't sling mud without getting yourself dirty

(I probably should not be posting this as my point will surely be misunderstood)

A well-known Israeli lawyer, Yoram Sheftel, was on the radio cursing out Rav Shteinman. He was commenting on what Rav Shteinman said earlier today, when he said about members of the current government who voted in favor of the new draft law that their names should be blotted out, that they should all descend to Hell... and he went and cursed and talked disparagingly about Rav Shteinman.

I did not hear what he said, but Kikar Shabbos reports on the incident, though they leave off the curses he actually said. MKs went on the attack. Others are forming a movement to have Sheftel sanctioned..

I am not going to defend Sheftel. Of course not. What he did was wrong and despicable.

However, when the public discourse is set in those terms, when rabbis are daily calling political opponents "enemies of israel", "their names should be blotted out", "Amalek", "Hitler", and more, does it surprise anyone when someone else has had enough and throws it back? Where is the outrage against calling other Jews Amalek or against saying nasty things about other groups?

You don't have to like someone, but you also don't have to be so mean. and if that is where you are going to let yourself go, don't be surprised when other people go to the same place.

Haredi MKs should not just be expressing their outrage, but should be working within their own community to improve the style of dialogue and tone of conversation.

you can't sling mud without getting yourself dirty

(by the way, you can hear his interview on both the Kooker and Srugim websites)







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15 comments:

  1. Excellent point. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Or, as one Rav in RBS put it: When rabbis enter politics, they lose their expectation to be treated like rabbis.

    ReplyDelete
  2. The political spectrum is a circle. At the extremes the left and right are indistinguishable.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I do not understand what they can possibly be upset about. He said about RALS exactly the same thing that the Rav said about others.

    ReplyDelete
  4. The difference is that for Rav Shteinman it hurts greatly that these okrei hadas of the mizrachi/reform are doing and that Bayit Yehudi deserves bigger curses than that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have just proven the point of the post.

      Delete
  5. A little light dissipates a lot of darkness. Every Jew can relate to light from a positive perspective.

    To promote a cause or a good platform, you only need light. Any other way is not the Torah way nor worthy of pursuit - like name-calling, mudslinging or the like.

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  6. Rafi, it's projection. The "rabbis" who so malign good Jews have something faulty in their spiritual bein adam l'chavero make-up and worse. Taking advantage of Israeli benefits, security etc and not contributing plus such awful remarks is not a true Torah way.

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    Replies
    1. How did you come to know what the Jewish way is, better than the greatest rabbis?

      Delete
    2. If the Rabbis see fit to spread sinas chinam, then they are not the greatest rabbis. (If they are the greatest rabbis the chareidim can come up with then they are really in trouble.)

      Delete
  7. You are 100% correct, and if some people misunderstand, it is their problem. Calling someone "enemies of Israel," "may their name be blotted out," "Amalek," "Hitler," and the like diminishes respect for the one who says that, and even more so if they are rabbis. I don't condone cussing someone out publicly, but I am also tired of the sinat chinam that provoked a response in kind.

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  8. Sad. Where is Rav Shteinman's original curse reported or recorded??

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. lots of places:

      http://www.nrg.co.il/online/11/ART2/566/959.html?hp=11&cat=1102&loc=2

      http://www.kooker.co.il/%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%99%D7%9C-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%97-%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%9D-%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%90-%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%A8-%D7%9E/

      http://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/166147


      http://www.srugim.co.il/71414-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%91-%D7%A9%D7%98%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%9E%D7%9F-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%97%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%99-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%97-%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%9D-%D7%95%D7%96

      Delete
  9. this shouldn't come as a surprise. when you listen to the frum media, they take it as a given their right to insult but not to be insulted. chayim varda can get on the air, voice his opinion as to why the media is similar to 1937 germany and no one says a word. but mk levy uses the a word he shouldn't have used (in the heat of the moment) and they go nuts.

    the only point that can be made in their "favor" is that chareidim don't have monopoly on hypocrisy.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I think we should all be using such harsh language. When the Haredim stop saying it, then I'll stop. Untill then, they are all amalek.

    ReplyDelete

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