Jul 15, 2010

Rav Chaim Kanievsky on Mashiach

Bechadrei is reporting on a story that happened yesterday (Wednesday) by Rav Chaim Kanievsky. I am just going to translate the story.

One of the visitors of Rav Kanievsky on Wednesday was a person who heads a large chessed organization.

The fellow was listing many of the tragic cases he has had to deal with recently, and asked for brachos for the sick people...

During the conversation, the fellow asked Rav Kanievsky why there are so much tzurres nowadays. He says for many years he has been involved in this chessed organization, and he doesn't remember a period of time ever that was so full of tzurres.

Rav Kanievsky said that it is known that in the generation of Mashiach Hashem will clean out the generation of its sins, and leave us "clean" in order to greet mashiach. How does he clean us out? Via tzurres. And that is the reason.

Somebody present asked "Rebbe, but until when?"

Rav Kanievsky closed his eyes and said, "Believe me, we are near the end. Really near the end."

16 comments:

  1. Which means absolutely nothing! Sorry to be cynical but after 6000 years, all things are comparative

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  2. nu be'emet. people (rabbis included, like the rambmam) have been saying this for god knows how long

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  3. He doesn't remember a period so full of Tzaros? Let me remind him of a few:

    1. 1939 - 1945. I don't care how many Almanos and Yesomim he's dealing with; losing 1/3 of Klal Yisrael is a bigger Tzara.

    2. Tach v' Tat - a significant portion of Eastern European Jewry was killed.

    3. 1492 - the Expulsion from Spain. Shortly afterward, the Jews were expelled from Portugal as well (with their children siezed by the church).

    4. 70 and 142(approximate) - the Churban Bayis Sheini and the supression of Bar Kochva. Tens of thousands of Jews were killed.

    These are just a few examples that I can recall off the top of my head. So please, spare me the dramatics. As the Rambam says, we can speculate about the Mashiach as much as we want, but in the end, we'll only know what will be once it happens.

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  4. oh please. he is obviously referring to personal tzurres, such as people dieing young from illness, etc. and not national tzurress.

    Also, it is very likely he was not head of the chessed organization when those events you mention happened, thus they are not part of his discussion.. :-)

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  5. Rafi - oh please. he is obviously referring to personal tzurres, such as people dieing young from illness, etc. and not national tzurress.

    Um, to my grandparents family, being gassed and cremated by the Nazis WAS a personal tzara!

    With all due respect to Rav Kanievsky, I think this is ridiculous. First of all, there is no evidence whatsoever that there are more tzuris nowadays. In fact, medical care is better today and people are living a lot longer than ever before. Pregnancy is treated so well that it is extremely rare for a woman to die during childbirth, even when compared to just 2 generations ago. Furthermore, care for prematurely born babies is so much better than even one generation ago, children that would never have lived, or lived with severe issues, are now in almost perfect shape. Finally, economically, Israel has nearly tripled its GDP per capita over a generation or two, and Israel is not so much a developing nation anymore, and is rather a developed nation with all that entails. I think the "more tzuris nowadays" is complete nonsense.

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  6. Rafi - these tzaros were quite personal to those involved - including my grandparents, both of whom lost just about their entire families. I'm sure those involved in those other events, no longer in living memory, that you so glibly dismiss as "national tzaros" took them personnally as well.

    Another point - what "personal tzaros" are you referring to as being more prevalent today than at any other time?? Children dying? My (other) grandfather remembers funerals for children being a commonplace event in the 1920's when he was a child in New York, not to mention the child mortality rates in Eastern Europe. People not having enough to eat? When was the last time you heard of someone, in Israel or the US, actually dying of starvation? Yes, there is much to improve in the way we take care of the poor, but our poor live immeasurabley better lives than thos of a generation or two ago. So, as I said in my original post, please, stop witih the dramatics - they only serve to encourage cynicism among people (like me).

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  7. I dont know what specifically he was refrring to, as no examples were given. He did say that as head of the organization he sees more today than in previous years. he didnt say anythign about a scientific study. Maybe there are more sicknesses in a community that did not have so many until now. Maybe other things. He said it, not me. I am just trying to guess what he meant. He might even be wrong, but he is still speaking from his experience.

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  8. This individual may have seen more Tzaros than he personally seen in the past, but to come to the conclusion that this must mean that Mashiach is around the corner is foolish in the extreme. Compared to the Tzaros that Klal Yisrael has suffered in the past, we're doing quite well right now.

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  9. Rafi, is there any substance to the claim of commenter #41 on the בחדרי חדרים site that the person who asked him was this boy Aberman's father, who according to Ha'aretz, is הרב אהרון לייב אברמן דמות מוכרת בעולם החרדי וראש עמותת לב מלכה המסייעת לפגועים?

    That would turn this whole story into a whole different direction, if true.

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  10. Are you guys seriously engaging in armchair analyses of R' Kanievsky? You don't really know what was being referred to, you don't really know what he meant by 'soon', you don't know why he felt the need to say it, you don't know the RMB"M as well he does, with all of it's background and applications, etc.--how dare you conclude it's foolish to say that? Do you know that 1497, I think it it was, the Abarbanel, predicted that Mashiach would come in under TEN years (I forget his exact date...I think it was 1503 the latest). Now, why would he say that? He KNOWS it may not work out and that people would be let down...but said it anyway. Why?

    I have no idea, but I'n sure he did. And yet you're all so quick to say he's foolish for saying such a thing.

    BTW, someone who's evazeh a talmid Chacham B'rabim has no chelek in Olam Haba. I don't know if this qualifies, but I would tread these waters pretty carefully....

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  11. yaak - I have not paid much attention to what happened to this Aberman, and I did not read that thread. post a link please. (there are always a number of threads)

    even if it is him, and I have no idea if it is or is not, why would it turn the story in a new direction (I ask out of ignorance because I dont know what that story is)

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  12. It would give an entirely new meaning to "בסוף".

    Although, from the context of his statement, that's likely not what he meant.

    Here's the Aberman story.

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  13. To the anonymous complaining about being Mevaze Rav Chaim Kanievsky, Shlita -

    Of course we're not calling Rav Chaim foolish. What is being questioned is the way the story is being reported. The breathless repition of "Did you hear that Rav X said that Mashiach is coming in X years/soon/on date X? He said it was because we're now experiencing more Tzaros than at any prior time" is what's foolish. The Rav making these statements is rarely as categorical as the story makes it sound, and the loss of nuance, and reasons given, are what make this a foolish story.

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  14. B"H
    My brothers and sisters, as I understand The holy Rav Chaim, considered to be the Head of World Jewry by many, seems to this simple individual to stress that yes we are aproaching the end of the suffering. Tzares on a national level are greater than any time in history. Assimilation has removed an estimated 50 million Jews since WWII, also the personal sorrows of divorce, illness, mental illness, financial ruin, and reduction in the general birthrate has not only reduced our numbers, but has created an atmosphere of hopelessness within the Holy People. Also the great and foolish divide between the religious and non-religious has caused us to have a needless hatred for each other. This Tzeres is both spiritual and physical. The Holocaust-and those martyred therein was physical suffering of an unimaginable degree.Unfortunately some misguided souls seek to cause division within Israel. The important place, as I have learn, is not the place where you are at r were at, but the next step forward. A religious man is like a tree that grows, surely it will bear fruit. A religious man is an individual who grows in his closeness to HASHEM through his actions, words, and thoughts. If a man has never worn a kippa, his wearing of a kippa the first time may be worth the rebuilding of the Temple if he wears it to become closer to HASHEM. This great divide between so called religious or non religious existed only during three times in history.
    The Greco-Roman Empire, In Germany Between WWI-WWII, and now. Some food for thought. Hatred destroyed the second Temple and The sages said that Ahavat (love for one another) will rebuild it. It is also said that if the Jews choose to love one another, the end shall come quickly. If not the shall be forced to love each other. Well the words of Rav Chaim Shlita state the end is near. The Rav understands what his words imply and that they are heard worldwide on the day they are said. It is almost a year later. Our "allies" are abandoning us. If you are in Israel do something, anything at all to come closer to HASHEM. if you are outside of Israel, make Aliyah and quickly.
    -NUN SHIN

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  15. are you guys stupid? you think everything that's happened in the last few years is a coincidence. There is no doubt that we are in the final stages. If you only opened your eyes you'd see the prophecies coming true. We're the first generation that can understand them because we're living with them. Wake up people!

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