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Feb 10, 2015
Women cannot run for Knesset because...
Some people really do not want Haredi women in the Knesset...they keep finding, or inventing, reasons to explain why it cannot happen.
I heard a new argument this morning against Haredi women running for Knesset. At least, I think it is a new argument. I don't remember ever hearing it before.
On Radio Kol Brama they brought up the issue of Haredi women running for the Knesset. They spoke with Rav Mordechai Neugershal about the issue.
Rav Neugershal gave the new explanation as to why women cannot run for Knesset, before he went on to the normal arguments. Neugershal seemed to say that it is really just a practical matter that prevents women from running. He explained that women cannot run and it is different than leaving the house for employment purposes.
Rabbi Neugershal explained that when a woman holds a job, she has options. If her family should need her, she can always give up the money and go back home. She can quit. No harm, no foul. Her family needs her, and she can go back to them, if necessary.
However, when you run for public office, for a leadership position, to serve the public, you don't have that option. If your family needs you, you cannot just leave and go home.
I seem to remember MKs not being restricted in any such manner. Recently Aryeh Deri resigned from the Knesset, as did Ariel Attias a couple of years before him. Danny Yatom resigned from the Knesset, as did Haim Ramon. There is no shortage of MKs that have resigned from the Knesset, so should it be necessary, there is nothing preventing any female MK from resigning, the same as any male MK.
From the practical perspective, I am not sure why it is ok for a man to be locked in (even though I already showed that nobody is actually locked in), but not for a woman. Should a man also not run for Knesset just because perhaps one day something else, family or whatever, might require his full attention?
Furthermore, Rav Neugershal demeans working people with such a statement. He makes it sound as if working people have no responsibility or personal integrity. They can quit at any time if something else demands their attention. Only MKs cannot because they have an ultimate responsibility to the public. People work very hard in very difficult jobs. They work long hours, they work difficult and tiring and wearying jobs in order to be able to pay the bills - health, tuition, mortgage, food, leisure, and everything else. They deal with responsibility at their jobs, while also dealing with all their family issues. People can quit their jobs, just like MKs can quit their jobs, and they do when necessary, but they do not do so flippantly. Usually, most people do not abdicate their responsibilities at work so easily. Sometimes they must, and such a decision is almost always carefully considered. But yes, people at regular jobs have a lot of responsibility as well - to themselves, to their employers, to their families, to their coworkers, and to anyone else who relies on them,
I heard a new argument this morning against Haredi women running for Knesset. At least, I think it is a new argument. I don't remember ever hearing it before.
On Radio Kol Brama they brought up the issue of Haredi women running for the Knesset. They spoke with Rav Mordechai Neugershal about the issue.
Rav Neugershal gave the new explanation as to why women cannot run for Knesset, before he went on to the normal arguments. Neugershal seemed to say that it is really just a practical matter that prevents women from running. He explained that women cannot run and it is different than leaving the house for employment purposes.
Rabbi Neugershal explained that when a woman holds a job, she has options. If her family should need her, she can always give up the money and go back home. She can quit. No harm, no foul. Her family needs her, and she can go back to them, if necessary.
However, when you run for public office, for a leadership position, to serve the public, you don't have that option. If your family needs you, you cannot just leave and go home.
I seem to remember MKs not being restricted in any such manner. Recently Aryeh Deri resigned from the Knesset, as did Ariel Attias a couple of years before him. Danny Yatom resigned from the Knesset, as did Haim Ramon. There is no shortage of MKs that have resigned from the Knesset, so should it be necessary, there is nothing preventing any female MK from resigning, the same as any male MK.
From the practical perspective, I am not sure why it is ok for a man to be locked in (even though I already showed that nobody is actually locked in), but not for a woman. Should a man also not run for Knesset just because perhaps one day something else, family or whatever, might require his full attention?
Furthermore, Rav Neugershal demeans working people with such a statement. He makes it sound as if working people have no responsibility or personal integrity. They can quit at any time if something else demands their attention. Only MKs cannot because they have an ultimate responsibility to the public. People work very hard in very difficult jobs. They work long hours, they work difficult and tiring and wearying jobs in order to be able to pay the bills - health, tuition, mortgage, food, leisure, and everything else. They deal with responsibility at their jobs, while also dealing with all their family issues. People can quit their jobs, just like MKs can quit their jobs, and they do when necessary, but they do not do so flippantly. Usually, most people do not abdicate their responsibilities at work so easily. Sometimes they must, and such a decision is almost always carefully considered. But yes, people at regular jobs have a lot of responsibility as well - to themselves, to their employers, to their families, to their coworkers, and to anyone else who relies on them,
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Where I a cynic, I'd said...
ReplyDeleteWell, time's come to be, so here it is :
For sure he doesn't think that people don't have nor need working integrity or responsability, how would he, since he and probably most of his acquaintances surely don't even know what that is, to work ?
Funny that it's the mamlakhtim who often (when it's convenient) claim that the Knesseth is a stand in for the King.
ReplyDeleteThe halakha is for us to set up a king, and not a queen, thus you could make the argument that women could not serve in this position.
Even more so, people are quick to criticize Haredim, and yet so easily forget that the NRP went to Rav Mordechai Eliyahu ztz"l to ask if they may have women on their list. He said, "No." They did anyway, stating that they have "other rabbis," resulting in MK Gila Finkelstein, who was probably one of the best MK's they've ever had.
So, before they start pointing the finger, they had better address not only their own rabbi's opinion, but while they went against him, and still had the audacity to call themselves the Nat'l Religious Party.
Siman vs. sibah (this is a descriptive, not a prescriptive reason)
ReplyDeleteKT
Joel RIch
An awful lot of MKs are absent during debates and votes. Unlike people with real jobs who would get fired for not showing up so much. I'd say Rav N. actually has it backwards. A job as MK would provide perfect flexibility for a wife and mother. She doesn't have to do much very often, and she gets paid for it with perks.
ReplyDeleteI think Esser Agoroth misunderstands the relationship of the Mizrahi and rabbanim. As much importance as the various incarnations of political religious zionism place on rabbanim, it has always been understood that *most* of the time they aren't asking rabbanim to pasken on political matters. It has always been a murky and complex relationship. And of course, there are all the times that two different poskim gave two very different instructions; such as the famous difference between Rav Mordecahi Eliyahu and Rav Ovadiah Yosef regarding the permissibility (at least theoretical) of handing over parts of the Land of Israel to the Arabs for a peace arrangement. Or, one might recall the very early pre-state debate over women voting in national elections. It is just too simplistic to say 'they ignored Rabbi Ploni'.
...I mention this as you seem to lump all "Mizrahim" and their relationships with their rabbeim into one basket. Correct me if I am mistaken.
Delete...I understood you to refer specifically to the NRP (or it's newer iterations). I was speaking to that, specifically. I think the approach in the NRP/Mizrahi/whatever-we'll-call-them-this-week is much more like Rav Y.D. Halevi Soltoveitchik's distinction between matters that are 'halachah' and matters that are 'policy'. I also don't think that the Mizrahi ever had a particular designated posek such that they were obliged to follow only his direction.
DeleteYes. I see what you mean now, and happen to agree. I think it's unfortunate that this is their approach, but that's another matter.
Deleteyour hocking a chinek about nothing here. Rav Neugershal is a pretty broad-minded person. Amihai clearly is not familiar with him. As a practical matter, for a woman to l'chatchila put herself in a position were she will likely have two contradictory commitments is not a good idea. It is that simple. The fact that many or most MKs at batlanim, is not matir someone else to be a batlan.
ReplyDeleteMichoel