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Jan 5, 2014
Haredim turn to leftists to avoid army service
According to this report on Mynet, more and more Haredim are turning to extreme leftist organizations to help them arrange exemptions from IDF service.
Since the Tal Law has been revoked all the thousands of yeshiva bochurim and avreichim have been in limbo. The deferral system does not work as it used to, and no new system is yet in place. With nobody in their natural camp to turn to for assistance, some have begun turning to secular leftists and anarchists for assistance in getting exemptions from army service. And the have been more than happy to help.
The extreme leftists and anarchists say they do not agree with the Haredim on some issues, but getting out of army service is something they agree on.
The leftists don't go to yeshiva, but find other ways of getting out of the army. They use ideology such as pacifism as a tool, or getting categorized as inappropriate for army service in order to get out of it...
It does not say in the article what they do to get out of the army service. The old method used to be acting crazy or mentally unstable, or acting as if one had a particular affinity for killing. People generally avoid these methods nowadays because it always leaves a mark on one's public record that he has been deemed as mentally unstable or dangerous. They must other methods employing more of an ideological bent towards pacifism.
The truth is that it is about time. Some politicians have picked on the Haredim and their avoidance of the army service, while ignoring the others who also get out of army service. Such as the Arabs and the leftists. I know you have to start somewhere, but there has been no attempt, to date, to really make the shivyon bnetel issue really about equal service - no attempts at all to solve the issue for the Arab community or the leftists, which makes it seem as more than "you have to start somewhere" and more targeted at the haredim.
Granted, a solution needs to be found about the haredim and army service, but it should not be called "equality" when it really isn't.
So, with the haredim being targeted, it is not surprising that they are finding ways that society considers more acceptable. At the end of the day, they don't really care what the reason given is, they just want out of the army service. If they cannot do it using "Torah learning" as the reason, they will do it other ways.
I have said for years that the yeshiva guys who really want out would be smarter to use other reasons for getting out rather than the Torah issue. And it works better as part of our society as well. First of all because of the dictum of not to use the Torah as an ax to chop with, but also because when using the methods of the leftists, the politicians will not be able to differentiate any longer.
The only thing is, that the leftists might eventually regret helping the haredim use their methods. Now that the haredim are piggy-backing off the leftists, there is a good chance that will be the next group the politicians come for to close those loopholes. The leftists, by partnering with the haredim, are putting their own avoidance at risk.
Since the Tal Law has been revoked all the thousands of yeshiva bochurim and avreichim have been in limbo. The deferral system does not work as it used to, and no new system is yet in place. With nobody in their natural camp to turn to for assistance, some have begun turning to secular leftists and anarchists for assistance in getting exemptions from army service. And the have been more than happy to help.
The extreme leftists and anarchists say they do not agree with the Haredim on some issues, but getting out of army service is something they agree on.
The leftists don't go to yeshiva, but find other ways of getting out of the army. They use ideology such as pacifism as a tool, or getting categorized as inappropriate for army service in order to get out of it...
It does not say in the article what they do to get out of the army service. The old method used to be acting crazy or mentally unstable, or acting as if one had a particular affinity for killing. People generally avoid these methods nowadays because it always leaves a mark on one's public record that he has been deemed as mentally unstable or dangerous. They must other methods employing more of an ideological bent towards pacifism.
The truth is that it is about time. Some politicians have picked on the Haredim and their avoidance of the army service, while ignoring the others who also get out of army service. Such as the Arabs and the leftists. I know you have to start somewhere, but there has been no attempt, to date, to really make the shivyon bnetel issue really about equal service - no attempts at all to solve the issue for the Arab community or the leftists, which makes it seem as more than "you have to start somewhere" and more targeted at the haredim.
Granted, a solution needs to be found about the haredim and army service, but it should not be called "equality" when it really isn't.
So, with the haredim being targeted, it is not surprising that they are finding ways that society considers more acceptable. At the end of the day, they don't really care what the reason given is, they just want out of the army service. If they cannot do it using "Torah learning" as the reason, they will do it other ways.
I have said for years that the yeshiva guys who really want out would be smarter to use other reasons for getting out rather than the Torah issue. And it works better as part of our society as well. First of all because of the dictum of not to use the Torah as an ax to chop with, but also because when using the methods of the leftists, the politicians will not be able to differentiate any longer.
The only thing is, that the leftists might eventually regret helping the haredim use their methods. Now that the haredim are piggy-backing off the leftists, there is a good chance that will be the next group the politicians come for to close those loopholes. The leftists, by partnering with the haredim, are putting their own avoidance at risk.
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This has been Yisrael Bateynu's position for a long time. It is the reason they opposed changing the draft rules that didn't address the Arab population. They would use a Sherut Leumi type of scenario. Arabs could do community service in their own communities avoiding the antagonism towards the State. Hareidim could get credit for Chessed programs that they are already run. As I stated early they were trying to get ZAKA to run under the IDF and be considered army service. The Rabbonim opposed it, so the idea was put on hold.
ReplyDeleteyes, Yisrael Beyteynu has been consistent about that. they are the only ones (I think).
Deleteregarding your second point, maybe now that Chabad has gotten itself recognized for civil service-sherut leumi, maybe other organizations will fodl and followsuit. Especially when people (rabbonim) see young chabadniks, and maybe others, flocking to volunteer in the approved chabad houses to qualify as civil service instead of regular army service..
it has nothing to do with "equality"
ReplyDeleteif someone breaks into your house to kill you and your family - do you say that you are not going to fight back to save the lives of your kids because "the arabs or anarchist or leftist or neturei karta" do not help in the fight against the murderers?
when the chariedim claim that their full-time non-stop dedicated Torah learning is just as important as serving in the army - i can understand that and even appreciate their dedication (even if i may think differently - that a type of hesder should be the best way).
but once they disregard army service in general (even for those who do not learn) and especially joining with our worst enemies - this is an unforgivable sin.
the equality and the goign to the leftists are two different issues. I am just saying they cannot be blamed for looking for any immediate solution when their is a perception that the entire political movement for equality is really just a target on haredim. I too do not agree with it, but I understand it. The haredim also never really blacklisted the leftists. They were always "pragmatic" and willing to sit with anybody that would give them what they wanted.. these extreme leftists are more extreme than that, but they havent made a pact - just getting their help on getting out of army service./
Deleteyou know what the name is for someone who is "willing to 'sit' with anybody that gives you what you want"?
Deleteto ehwhy
ReplyDeletei do not want the arabs in the army.
i believe that it is a mitzvah to serve in the army to help save the lives of your fellow Jews in Eretz Yisrael - just like it is a mitzvah to keep shabbat and a mitzvah to make Aliya.
i don't agree with the argument - that "since i have to suffer and go to the army - i want everyone else to suffer also". " even if i don't need or want them in the army - just as long as they also suffer"
do you ever hear anyone say - just like i suffer on shabbat - it's not fair that the chilomin don't suffer also - let's force them all to keep shabbat so they will suffer also? or let's force all the jews in the world to make aliya so they will have to suffer with us? never!
it is a PRIVILEGE to keep shabbat, a PRIVILEGE to keep kosher, PRIVILEGE to live in Israel and a PRIVILEGE to servve in teh army if you can to help save klal Yisrael.
If you don't want to - that's a pitiful shame for you.
If you are happy with the status quo that is your right.
DeleteThe position I am talking about doesn't not result in Arabs joining the Army. It results in Arabs doing community service within there own Arab communities. The Haredim could also serve their local communities without the having to actually be in military units. Just like Sherut Leumi they get credit for serving in the Army. They have the options to either learn in Kollel for the rest of their lives or enter the work force in order to support their local Kollel.
What total bunk. out of the secular community, those who do the army are the majority and those who don't are the minority. In the charedi the stats are the opposite.
ReplyDeleteAnd are you really going to bring an equivalency between charedi israelis and arab israelis? Maybe when the state one day ever has an arab party in a coalition and offers equality to arab citizens you could talk about them , but really?
leftists and arabs are who the army should start with?! Are you kidding me?
start with? it should all be done at the same time. and even if not, we should at least see some movement on those fronts as well. we have seen absolutely no discussion at all on those fronts. i I dont see why them being in a coalition or not is connected to army service. they still receive benefits from the state just like other citizens.
ReplyDeleteSo the test of the medina will be what percentage of its citizens affiliate with this new leftist+charedi bloc versus some participatory pro-Israel platform.
ReplyDelete