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Mar 3, 2014

The Million-Man Prayer Rally-Demonstration, photos and thoughts

I went with my son to participate in the Atzeret Tefilla yesterday. It was basically a last minute decision, as I really believe that at best these types of events are a waste of time (at worst they are also harmful).. I also don't completely agree with the sentiments behind it, but I decided anyways to go with my son. At the end of the day, getting so many people together, and to exercise a democratic right to protest, as an historic event. As well, in addition to wanting to see it with some curiosity, I wanted to also be able to report on the event here (and I live-Facebooked it at the time)..


we got a bus pretty quickly.. was a bit surprising how smoothly it all went... very little traffic on the back road, though at one point the bus had to pull over as it couldnt handle the hills - after  a short break we got back on the road and everything was fine the rest of the way.

right when we got to Malha, where the buses were being rerouted to, I bumped into my high-school boy.. out of a million people there, what were the chances of this happening?


From Malha there was no organized transportation to the rally. I consider this a failing of the people who planned this event. What happened next was very dangerous. We walked 45 minutes from Malha to the rally - all along the Begin Expressway with cars speeding by, and there is no sidewalk. Someone could have been killed. If such an event is planned and public transportation is rerouted to a different part of town, there should be shuttles (even for pay) organized to get people there.
 we walked through the Begin tunnel under Givat Mordechai...
and even had to cross an on-ramp at one point..




who says Haredim are not in the workforce?

saw some friends who found their own way to get to the rally from Bet Shemesh completely avoiding traffic..


I snapped some pictures of many of the various signs on display... some of them more incendiary than others.. this was definitely not just a prayer rally, but also a demonstration..





I saw women walking through the men section frequently enough...







women were on the roof over Center 1... but you can see some men wanted that vantage point as well...


 chessed at the rally..

somebody had a brilliant idea - he made his car a counting station - asked people to put in coins like the machtzis hashekel and via the coins he would count how many people showed up.. and the money would go to supporting Torah.. I even saw some people putting money in..

I also bumped into my oldest son.. again, out of a million people, what are the chances...






From everything I saw, it was fairly well done, people were under control of themselves and I didn't see or hear of any trouble or rioting...

other thoughts:
1. I still find it funny they continue to call it the million-man rally, when nobody says the numbers were close to a million. even the haredi sites only say 600,000 (which is an amazing number, but it is not a million)
2. I did not say the bracha for seeing 600,000 Jews. My decision was because it was announced in advance that the bracha should be said because 600,000 people would be there. From that it was clear to me that they were assuming 600,000 people will have showed up. - by hook or by crook, whether or not that number was actually reached will have been irrelevant to the decision to say the bracha. I figured nobody really knew at that point, so saying the bracha was wrong. I also saw afterwards that Rav Shternbuch had said not to say the bracha because it would not be clear if enough people would be present.
3. despite my doubts about the bracha, there was a massive number of people there, all exercising their democratic right to demonstrate, and daven together, which is a beautiful thing, even when I don't completely identify with the cause.
4. the saying of selichos disturbed me. Being Rosh Chodesh, it shouldn't have been said. The excuse of horaat shaa is weak, in my opinion, as it could have been held a different day, if not for other considerations. Far be it from me to argue on great poskim, but when such "heterim" are found for situations of convenience, they surely can be found in other situations as well. It strengthens the claim people have of "when there is a halachic will..", or at least it makes people skeptical of how the halacha is applied and how it isn't..

here are a couple of great pictures I saw from other people..






two funny comments I heard, perhaps disrespectful but I will repeat them anyway:
1. the Amshinover Rebbe arrived at the rally just in time.. for Rav Ovadiah's funeral..
2. when the ralliers started dancing at the end, it turned out that Israel's largest rave party ever was organized by the Moatzot Hachachamim..
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27 comments:

  1. The event was a chillul Hashem. An entire community, hundreds of thousands of people, demonstrating that they are not at all interested in contributing to an army that they themselves agree is necessary and benefit from. What a disgrace.

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    Replies
    1. The event was a kiddush Hashem. An entire community, hundreds of thousands of people, demonstrating that they are interested in contributing to society by learning Torah even though others don't agree that it is necessary and that they all benefit from it. What an honor.

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    2. Baloney. You can contribute to society with Torah even if you go to the army. But they fail to contribute to the army, which they themselves agree is necessary and benefit from. Why should other people put theirs and their children's lives at risk, and not charedim?

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    3. The event, like other mass 'don't do this' events, was a kiddush Hashem. Mass events against the TV, cellphones, the internet, smartphones, unfiltered internet are all kiddush Hashems because they set the limit at the time. Everyone knows there are exceptions, and everyone knows that culture is making a shift, that warrants events like this. More and more Haredim are already going to the army, technical studies, and the general workforce, so the gedolim need to give them some strength.
      The event was not against the army or the draft, but rather the forced Lapid-Bayit Yehudi draft.

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    4. Nonsense. They say over and over again about how the whole rally was to drive home the point that serving in the IDF is assur. Why do you refuse to take them at their word?

      It happens to be a chiyuv- not a zechut, not a mitzvah, but a chiyuv halakhah- to serve in the military. Having a "don't do this" event for a chiyuv is, indeed, a bizayon hatorah and chillul hashem.

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    5. RBS Resident, if you really think it's possible to contribute to society with Torah even if you go to the army, then you should know that a fuller Torah contribution can be done by spending more time learning and less in the army. And the idea that "Why should other people put theirs and their children's lives at risk, and not charedim?" can only be said by someone who doesn't think about how an army functions. Not everyone in the army is at risk of harm. Plenty of people do very safe support roles far from any risk or danger. If you would really see torah learning as being as valuable and as supportive as any other army role you would see how lacking your accusation is.

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    6. I never said that Torah LEARNING is as valuable and as supportive as any other army role. It's not, and you won't find any Rishon saying that it is.

      Sure, not everyone in the army is at great risk. But everyone in the army is putting themselves out to a great degree - it's very hard work - and a lot of people are at risk. The charedi community, as a community, refuses to share in that sacrifice and risk. Why should they be exempt? Why should they not have a debt to those who make a sacrifice that they refuse to make?

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    7. RBS resident:
      What then did you mean when you wrote "You can contribute to society with Torah"??

      This isn't the forum for a discussion, but of course we see the importance of Torah in relation to the army. See the bottom of Megilla 3a. While a superficial look at that gemara might lead one to say the opposite, "See they were in the army and learned," that's false. The rebuke is because of too much bitul torah. Since the claim to remove the yeshiva exemption is not based on what the army may or may not need, but on other societal goals (homogenized society, a fight against poverty, etc), the rebuke given to Yehoshua is relevant.

      People learning are also "putting themselves out to a great degree" just in a manner that you don't see as being as valuable as non-combat military roles. This "as a community" accusation is also false. First of all, some charedim do serve. But even ignoring that, it's as meaningless as saying that the community of military lawyers, computer programmers, web designers, etc. refuses to share in that sacrifice and risk. I repeat, people learning are also "putting themselves out to a great degree" just in a manner that you don't see as being as valuable as non-combat military roles.

      Delete
  2. Next week the anglo haredim of RBS will vote for Abutbul for the same reason you and your sons went to the rally.
    How sad.

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  3. We have gedolei yisrael and they decide what the halacha is. Rav Wosner is the most famous posek alive and he permitted saying selichos.
    Mizrachniks who have Taryag Ba'ayot don't want such kulos.... They want to be relieved from their ba'ayot.

    It was a huge kiddush hashem where all frum Jews attended or supported it. Not everyone was able to attend.
    It's pretty clear why the police didn't let a helicopter take pictures. The atzeres was spread out over a square mile.

    It's very nice that you attended and you did show that for all your misgivings, you are still part of the frum tzibur.
    The part of the mizrachi that attended are those that still feel a kesher to yiddishkeit. The rest like "Rabbi" Feuerstein and "Rabbi" Druckman are heading the way of the reform and the maskilim in their day.
    And lol at HaGaon "Rabbi" Piron's comments today.

    We demonstrated yesterday that we are a huge unified crowd and the mizrachniks and their cronies, Lapid and Co. can jump in the lake. We are not joining an army that is one shtik chillul Shabbos, znus, pritzus and whatnot under any circumstance. Lets see you try to lock me up.

    Even though the law only goes into effect in a few years, we'll likely have a call not to report for tzav rishon after the law passes and we'll call your bluff very soon.
    Come arrest me. I am not joining your army. Give me back my taxes and don't give me any benefits.
    The amount of money the charedim get back from the government is way less than their share of the population or their share of taxes.
    Bnei Brak doesn't have a police station. I wonder why. No wasted money on theaters, mada'ei ha'ruach, sports, gang busters, an entire division of shabak for lawless mizrachniks rioting and provoking terror in the west bank, no billions for universities teaching liberal arts etc. etc.
    Time for you to share the burden of Torah and Mitzvos.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm sorry that you are a disturbed person and not the clal. The normative Haredi respects that even in mizrachi there are true rabbis like Rav Drukman and Rav Feuerstein, even if they disagree with their daat torah (maybe even me). They do not really believe the small leaders that make dumb comments like this and know that their newspapers and media are not telling all the truth. They do not believe that all 'modernim' and mirochim are from the same cookie cutter (for better and worse).
      May Hashem help you see the good in your fellow Jew.

      Delete
    2. Druckman and Feuerstein as Rabbis.
      Show me your "Rabbi" and I'll tell you who you are.

      Delete
    3. "Unknown" incredibly selfish, ungrateful, disrespectful, foolish words show exactly what is the problem with charedi culture.

      Delete
    4. Incredibly poretz geder, hiloni-lite, 1 created mitzvah full of chumros, the other 613 full of kullos or disregard, "Rabbis" with bare heads like never before in klal Yisrael.
      Showing exactly what is the problem with mizruchnik culture.

      Delete
  4. Are those chareidi women? This is a serious question.

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    Replies
    1. I have no idea how they categorize temselves. I did see plenty of women walking through the mens section at different points. some looked haredi, some dati, some secular...

      Delete
  5. according to news reports Moshe Gafni asked the chief of police if there are 600000 people and he said there definitely are so reb aron leib said to make the bracha

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    Replies
    1. Still, seems a bit trusting for people who pride themselves on being "machmir l'chol hadeios" and otherwise go to laughable extremes to avoid bracha lvatala/lo sisa.

      Delete
  6. unkown - your attitude is extremely deprecating and insulting. I think it is attitudes like yours that cause the general hatred we see against haredim that probably even caused them to draft this law. When you think you are greater than everyone else rather than appreciating each community for what they offer, thats when you cause strife

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    Replies
    1. Rafi, you're part of the problem. You speak of "this law" as if it was something evil, and motivated by hate. It is neither, and so long as you don't realize it, you are, once again, part of the problem.

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    2. where did I speak of the law as being evil or motivated by hate? I happen to think that overall, as much of it as I am familiar with, it is a good and necessary law. There are some aspects of it (again, I do not know all the details of the law, but of what I am familiar with), that I disagree with or dont like the process used to get there, but overall I think its a good and necessary law.

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    3. When the gemara said "Sin'as Am Haaretz LeTalmid Chacham", it wasn't referring to the hatred of kofrim as the chilonim are. It referred to the mizrachniks.
      That's from where the hatred comes from.
      It's the same gemara that says "Halacha Beyadua Eisav Sonei LeYaakov". Somehow, this gemara mizrachniks do know.

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    4. No, Rafi, that doesn't cut it. You *just wrote* that "general hatred" against haredim probably "caused them to draft this law." You have zero evidence of that, because it doesn't exist.

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  7. There are many good intending people who would like 'Charedim" to be more educated and more responsive to Israeli societal needs i.e. army. That is o.k. But when the people Lapid and others who want to destroy Judaism jump on the bandwagon ,that is why they made the mass rally. We need both Torah learning and an army. You will not change the Charedi mind set by dictating what should be done to them. It has to be done in a proper way, not shoved down their throats.

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    Replies
    1. Can you supply one shred of evidence that Lapid wants to "destroy Judaism"?

      I'll save you the time- you can't.

      Delete
  8. Its pure sinas chinom
    http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2014/03/fools-blinded-by-hate-and-pure-sinas.html

    ReplyDelete

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