May 27, 2009

Ahmed Tibi - he just doesn't make sense

I don't get it.

Today the Knesset voted on a new bill proposal by MK Zevulun Orlev - the bill giving a year of jail time to anybody who calls publicly for negating or denying the State, if it will likely lead to actions against, shame or lack of loyalty to the State. The bill passed.

I am not a big fan of the idea of the bill, but that is not the point. what I don't get is the response of MK Ahmed Tibi. Tibi said "We will not recognize Israel as a Jewish and Zionist state, despite the draconian law of MK Orlev..."

This is an MK in the parliament of Israel? not recognizing the basic nature of the State? If he did not want to recognize the State, he should not be serving as MK - not even from israel's point of view, but from his own perspective. His serving as MK is recognition of Israel.

Then of course there is the question of why and how Israel allows such a person to serve as MK...

I don't get it.


  1. Of course it makes sense! Tibi is using any means he can to destroy Israel. Why should he not do it from the inside?

    How did he get there? Courtesy of the I-SUC (Israeli SUpreme Court), whose principal goal is to strip Israel of its Jewish character. They overruled the Elections Committee's disqualification of Tibi and his party, because they have common cause - undermining the Jewish nature of the state.

    Why is this so surprising to you? The only surprise to me is that the citizens of Israel can tolerate this "enlightened" judicial dictatorship, but their brains have already been mushed into line by the leftist media, so this whole ridiculous situation seems normal to them.

  2. not G.

    He is very consistent. He says he does not recognize the Jewish or Zionist nature of Israel, not the existence of the state itself.

  3. Rafi G,

    Per your post on Yom Haatzmut and the numerous examples of the neturai karta and other (less extreme) charedi jews, there are many jews who feel the same as Tibi. So why are you picking on him alone? Just because he is not jewish? Will this new law go after jews who put up pali flags on yom haatzmut?

    ps. the post is already way down there, but I responded to shauls personal rant against me re:reform conversion funding. really dude, there was no reason for a 'free thinker' to jump to conclusions.

  4. Israel is a nation state; its very reson for existing is to be a homeland for the Jewish people. Any attempts at verbal acrobatics around this, like Tibi's, are creepy and won't fool anyone.
    As for Tibi's activities as an MK, the UKIP (UK Independence Party) has six MEP (Members) in the European Parliament. Their openly declared objective is to take Britain out of the European Union.

  5. there is a specific law that prohibits someone from running for knesset if he does not recognize the Jewish (and democratic) nature of the state.

  6. way - the difference is Tibi is a Member of Knesset and the Neturei Karta people are mot. Look, even they are more straight and honest than Tibi!

  7. would the law only affect mk's? or is it a law for all the citizens?

  8. Way-2-0:
    Dude, no offence meant, but you were trolling big time. You can't stick a crass, out-of-context comment like yours on a blog frequented by mostly religious folks and then feign innocence when they get upset at you. My response to your comment was basically, "Do not feed the trolls".
    Civilized and sensitive discussion, OTOH, is always welcome by me...

  9. the law is not specific to MKs. It is for everybody. It is in addition to the "Nakba Law" that was passed the other day -making it illegal to publicly express mourning on Yom Haatzmaut

  10. Shaul,

    a law in the torah is distatseful? only by our modern standards. which aside from the law itself is my implied point. That the torah changes with our times and standards and therefore for one group to discriminate against the other because they believe they own the unchanging true version is the problem. SO the orthodox have a choice, force their version of the truth on others or create a system that acgnowledges and deals with others. In the reform marriage case they have a system, such as proving your jewishness, in place. So why discriminate? But if your argument is that discrimination is fine because you own the truth, then you have to own the whole truth. The law of rape is no more distatsteful than the argument for discrimination. Therefore my response was not out of context.
    Be that as it may, I appreciate our new understanding of our positions.

    Rafi G, so what would happen to a jew in RBS who hangs out a pali flag on nakba day or some other event?

  11. the nakba law was passed already? i dont think that's happened yet.

  12. said...

    Per your post on Yom Haatzmut and the numerous examples of the neturai karta and other (less extreme) charedi jews, there are many jews who feel the same as Tibi.

    Quantify many.

    This is nonsense.

  13. It is not "many". but it is a loud extreme minority.

    about the nakba law - I think it passed the initial reading, but is not yet law. It has to pass three more votes I think. I am not sure as to the exact status. I did not pay that much attention to it. I think it is a stupid law. But let's say it would pass, and someone did hang a pali flag up and sat outside in public mourning with sackcloth - technically the police could arrest and prosecute him and he would sit in jail for a year (I think that was the determined punishment)

  14. I'm amused at the Israeli Left screaming that anti-Israeli traitors are going to be silenced. These are the same people who have always been gleeful when the government silenced Kahanists and Zionists. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, they're suddenly indigent about Arabs being denied free speech rights.

    Please spare me their sickening hypocrisy! They deserve what they get - and in a just world, a Fifth Column PLO Arab like Ahmed Tibi would have been executed for treason, not made a Knesset Deputy Speaker.

    Only in Israel...

  15. Shy, I like Rafi G's quantification; a loud minority.

    Norman, I don't know what you are talking about. I don't want to silence the right or the left. I don't know how the "left" got dragged into your specious argument. Freedom of speech is not absolute and I have no problem with that. All I wanted to know is if this law will be enforced in a discriminatory manner, ie: using it to punish arabs but not jews.

  16. Norman and Shy,
    As a follow up: Israel goes all over the world proudly thumping her chest with the words, "we are the only democracy in the middle east."

    Granted that apparantly rubs you the wrong way as you want Israel to be the post masiach torah true version of your mind. I get that. But the mashiach has not yet arrived and as of now, Israel defines herself as a democracy.

    And this is not a problem limited to Israel. America and many democracies throughout europe have the same debate when it comes to people who serve in congress for example, and fight for a stronger seperation of church and state. Turn on fox news or pat robertsons CBN and you will hear the right wing make the same exact arguments. SO this is an issue that many democracies struggle with.

    I side with Voltaire. I may not agree with your position but I will fight to the death for you to speak your mind. Whether you are on the left or right.

  17. Wait a second, does PM Tibi have to go to jail now?


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