Thank you Avraham for that clarification. I am a long-standing member of Beis Tefillah and have also been a strong supporter of Lemaan Achai for many years giving many hundreds of dollars each year. There are many, many other members of Beis Tefillah who support LA, not only with their pockets, but with their time. Most of the dentists, for example, who volunteer their time for LA are associated with Beis Tefillah.

I would like to point out to the public who may have a misunderstanding of the situation - Rabbi Malinowitz has a specific problem with OVERT advertising in the shul, but has no issue whatsoever with Lemaan Achai COLLECTING in the shul. Just this very morning, a LA representative was walking through the minyan with the green LA pushka and credit card machince, taking donations. It would be hard to call that a "ban" against Lemaan Achai by any stretch of the imagination.

On Erev Yom Kippur, I implore the writers of these blogs and the readers who post comments to hold any biased, uninformed, or emotional opinions to themselves in the name of Shalom. Through our teshuva, tefilla and tzedaka may Hashem grant us all a healthy and peaceful year.

Dear (fellow) BTYA member,

I appreciate your comment as well as Rav Leventhal's kudos to some members of the shul.

However it still remains that Lema'an Achai is treated differently than other tzedakos in our shul. The fact that they can't advertise sends a message that perhaps there is something wrong with them (when nothing could be further from the truth).

On the other hand the shul, it's walls and even the front entrance were flooded with adverts and gimmicks from other organizations without even a sign or flyer from Lema'an Achai (al pi the Rav).

What is the average person supposed to deduce from that?

I am happy that you, me and perhaps a handful of others can see beyond the smoke but what about others who don't know the real story?

Just curious (really),
what is it that lmaan achay does so much greater than the kupa that people are so up in arms about this topic?
If the kupa is giving money to aniyim and lmaan achay is also, so what is the difference who the messanger is to get the money to the aniyim.
as far as the other services that lmaan achay might provide, as far as I understand, those that require the services will go to get them wherever they can, and those that are needed to provide the services would be approached individually.
therefore, i am just trying to understand what is the big deal either way?
is it that the lmaan achay supporters feel that the money is not given out properly and therefore they want to be the ones to give it out? in which case it seems silly to attack the kupah for wanting the same thing.
either way i am just trying to understand why all Rafi's readers are so hot on this topic

anon for safety,

Where do you see an attack on the Kupa? The only one being attacked or victimized is Lema'an Achai.

Perhaps the question should be reversed..why are all of the shuls and rabbonim who "assur" Lema'an Achai so afraid? Lema'an Achai does just as good of a job at helping aniyim.

If you'll look closely you'll find that Lema'an Achai rabbonim and supporters are self confident enough to allow both organizations in their domain.

The opposite can't be said.

just the facts,
i am sorry. you misunderstood me.
i wasn't necesarily referring to this post. i was referring to the general approach that i see here in the many comment thread.
my comment about the attacking was a side point.
if the main issue is where the money is being funneled through then what is the difference? why not just go about doing what you do and forget about the rest? obviously david morris refuses to do that and seems to claim that the poor people are loosing out. i can't understand how.
please enlighten me.
i am really interested to understand and not trying to defend or attack anyone or any organization.

As far as I know, they are different kinds of organizations. The Kupa focuses more on hand-outs of cash and food. LA focuses more on assessing overall problems with each family and working on rehabilitating them so that they don't need help any more.

anon for safety - Lema'an Achai's core mission is not to merely give out funds to the poor; rather, it's to help the poor no longer need assistance. Yes, they do give out funds to those in immediate need, but the thrust of their approach is to assist with practical things like job training, financial counseling, and day care to allow parents to work, all overseen by a team of social workers and other professionals who try to "break the cycle of poverty". Its work resembles the old saying - give a man a fish, and you've fed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you've fed him for a lifetime.

rbser and anonymous,
thanks for sharing that info. however, if that is the case then wouldn't they need less cash to accomplish their goals anyways?
also, i happen to know that there are guys involved in the kupa that are doing the same thing (I was contacted by one of these guys that was working with a family and i happened to have info about them that was pertinent to the situation.)i also know of people with small buisinesses in the neighborhood that hired their workers through the kupa's reccomendations.
perhaps they aren't as proffesional, though, i have no idea.

i think there is also a sense, a feeling of delegitimization. Nobody likes to feel like their efforts are "less worthy".

and nobody wants their efforts to be hampered. Yes, someone else is also helping the poor, but if "I" am helping as well, why should you hinder my efforts?

anon for safety

You really are clueless. Its just so obvious that LA is better. I mean, cant you tell? If the kuppa was so good, why would they need to hide behind those crazy hareidi rabbis who ban this and ban that based on a personal whim and one's one arrogance? Dont you read this blog ever? Isnt it clear from the comments how little you know, if you dont see how clearly great LA is? I mean, even the LA's own unbiased rabbis say its the best organization. Even secular papers know how great it is, and you know how much they love to praise hareidi organizations?

Also, another reason why its so obvious is because all those unnamed (by me, at least, but plenty of other love to name them) hareidi "rabbi" love to hide confirmed child abusers and honor them? And LA doesnt. So that makes it a much better organization.

And besides, if LA wasnt so great, how come everyone knows its just the best? Just look on DM's blog. Its all laid out in black and white how great it is.

Its all about control. hareidi rabbis only want to control you and your life. Thats the main point of the kuppa. And since thats the unabashed facts on the ground, we need to bash them at every mention of the word LA possible. Its practically a mitzvah. We cant just speak about the merits of LA. We need to attack the kuppa and RSZE and those hareidi child abuser loving rabbis at all costs.

And dont tell me I dont have facts, because I can make them up just as fast as I can make up halacha.

Get With the Program,

Please get with a mental health professional....fast.

And also check your calendar...it is the 10 days of teshuva!

(if I were a betting man I would wager that far more charedi rabbis and by default their flocks bash Lema'an Achai than the reverse)

get some help

Not on this blog.

"if that is the case then wouldn't they need less cash to accomplish their goals anyways?"

No, LA needs more money. Unlike the kupa, they have salaried employees - mainly social workers, but also others. They get paid bubkas, but it's still several salaries.

i dont think how much one needs over the other is the issue. I think it is simply an issue of hampered efforts. Each one collects (and I donate to both), and each one helps many in the community. I am sure there is some overlap, but there is also plenty of no overlap. Just like there is definitely overlap with Yad Tomech, and various other local organizations to help the needy. Nobody says in a neighborhood the size of RBS there should be only one organization. Too many people would fall through the cracks. Each org has its specialty, its niche and its clientele.
And when the organizations fundraising efforts are hampered, often for no good reason (not specific to the issue discussed here. let's leave it at not allowing LA to collect in many shuls in the neighborhood for the past 10 years), it is upsetting to the people who give of their time to try to help better and more efficiently

If Rv Malinowitz has something to say, can I suggest he writes an article in his own name, rather than pretending he's "simply" a commenter here?

I'm sorry - the issue is not Kuppa vs Lemaan Achai. Which org does what, etc...

That is just smoke in our eyes.

The sole issue is the REASON for the ban of LA in in BTYA.

If Rav M knew, for example, that LA was corrupt or mishandling public funds (chas veshalom) then that's a reasonable reason to take steps to stop LA collecting.

But that's not the case.

Rav Malinowitz has promoted to his shul & practiced illegal shittas for "dealing with" child abuse.

David Morris, and Lema'an Achai, promote lawful and professional methods.

To shut up Morris & LA on this issue, Rav M has banned LA.

You think that's reasonable, fine.

You don't, then find a new rabbi.

Anon of 12:31,

I might agree with you that on this blog there may be a tilt toward towards Lema'an Achai. I might also add 9with all due respect to Rafi) that the readership here is relatively small and many of the posters are actually the same person posting again and again.

So let's examine the facts on the street.

1) Presently Lema'an Achai material is not allowed in several shuls including BTYA, Gra, Rav Perlstein's, Massas Mordechai, Mishkenos Yaakov, and several smaller betei Midrash.

2) Various rabbonim are either openly "anti" Lema'an Achai or passively just won't mention them.

3) Over the past year Lema'an Achai's banners were destroyed almost everywhere they were hung. The neighboring banners of other organizations remained intact.

4) Lema'an Achai's rabbonim openly allow PR and collections from the Kupa in their shuls.

5) I witnessed with my own eyes, on Erev Rosh haShana, how the paid (he told me that he was paid) poster hanger from Kupa pasted their poster directly over Lema'an Achai's at my shul. (There was plenty of room for both).

So anon of 12:31 and anon for safety, etc. it would seem that in the "real" world there is an attitude against Lema'an Achai. This attitude pre-dates David Morris's views on child abuse.

Please understand as well that it isn't that Lema'an Achai supporters hate Kupa..it's that we love Lema'an Achai.

the issue is more than just Rav M does not like LA, or that he disagrees on the child abuse issue and wants to shut them up.

Rav M feels, rightly or wrongly is not the point for this discussion, that he was accused of protecting molesters, rather than simply being a "different approach" to the same goal. He took that as a personal attack and therefore cannot "allow" people who would accuse him thusly to collect money in the shul.

Whether it actually happened, whether it was retracted, whether it is perception - those are all issues that are relevant and can be explored in an effort to resolve the tension, but it must first be framed correctly. he is not simply upset at a difference of opinion. He feels he was publicly accused of a horrible crime.

For the past two years, I've followed this debate with interest, sadness and shock. Kudos to Rafi for allowing this very important issue to be discussed in a rational (mostly) way. You see, I used to be a BTYA member and was excited to be part of a vibrant kehilla that seemed to follow the America Haredi hashkofa I was used to from home. Then I realised that something strange was going on. I won't go into it too much here, but cliques, powergames and favorites all played a big part. I stood by watching an almost cult-like reverence for a man who I had seen as an incredible talmid chocham and he really seemed to be enjoying it. I assumed that since it was his first pulpit job, it would go away, but it didn't. the political manipulation became less subtle with each new cause. We were told what to support and how, but never WHY. We were subjected to some bizarre ranting sermons and emails that told us to show up for more "important" meetings. The shul members slid away, but since there were always more to replace them, no one bothered to ask why so-and-so wasn't there anymore. The members were expected to accept, but not question and the inner circle grew tighter. I'd never seen a shul where the Rav appointed the shul board and where the Rav was not answerable to his kehilla. He became an almost untouchable figure, but no one could figure out what, or who was keeping him in power. Then came the RANT! Just before Minchah, a regular Shabbes. I was packing up my stuff to go home, when I heard a commotion. "Rasha, Jackass" and more curses and screaming. Right in front of the Aron Kodesh. My Rav, the Talmis Chocham lost control with an anger that had no provocation, no source, just blazing hatred towards a quiet, humble little English guy I had seen at shiurim. If Amalek had appeared in shul, I wouldn't have expected more. Then I waited for an explanation-NADA. No one asked him to explain himself, everyone was shocked, hushed, but did NOTHING. I was so ashamed. I did some digging, and found a story in the Jerusalem post, but there were no names in the article that could have infuriated a man to this degree. How can a Rav, an editor of Holy books sink so low and fight back with some venom? Against who? A man who gives his whole life to charity, who listens to those with no voices, who takes barely any credit or distinction , who may well be a lamed vavnik.

So I slid away as well. i took my family and now we daven with a new Rav who is not afraid to answer questions and will humbly give an apology, who preaches to his kehilla about TESHUVA and actually does teshuva.

Rav Malinowitz, you spoke at a BTYA Melave Malka a coupla years back about how when you moved from Sanhedria to your new home, no one said goodbye. well, neither did we and neither did anyone else.

In these days of AWE when we stand before Hashem, can you look yourself and your members in the face and still say, I WAS RIGHT, or is it all smoke and ego?

and another post degenerates into a bash Rav Malinowitz thread.
i find it ironic how in the early days of Rafi's blog, there was a regular bashing of other Rabbonim and organizations and now again and again it is Rafi's own rav that he has to watch being insulted.

Rafi: "He feels he was publicly accused of a horrible crime."

If Rav Malinowitz is referring to the JPost article over two years ago (!!), the way I read this, it did not publicly accuse Rav Malinowitz of anything.
(Article available at: http://tzedek-tzedek.blogspot.com/p/that-article-in-jerusalem-post.html )

There's only generalities, no identifiers, no names, and not even any "horrible crime" (aside from the child abusers).

Maybe Rav Malinowitz considers that article was spotlighting him in particular (and perhaps it was, I don't know), but no objective party would read it that way.

Time for the Rav to gain some balance, withdraw his shameful cherem, which is an embarrassment to his kehilla and beyond, and move on.

as I said, whether he was or was not is a different discussion. He felt like he was accused, and cant let the accuser into the shul..
whether it happened or not, whether it was retracted or not, is the next step. To understand why there is a ban you have to go beyond "he doesnt like Lemaan Achai or Morris" and recognize that he believes he was accused.