Apr 9, 2008

and the wedding goes on

Update (updates usually go at the end of a post, but I felt like putting it on top):

These are the pashkevilim against the wedding that I found that were hung up and thrown around Yerushalayim..they are very sharply written...

An anonymous commenter left a strange comment here, and on some other blogs, the other day. It was about a wedding that was due to take place, supposedly against the wishes of her parents who are prominent members of the London Jewish community. There were few details mentioned and little background.

The wedding took place and the story, with a few pictures, has been reported in Ynet (in Hebrew only, at this point).

It seems, according to the article, that the family had sent their daughter to a seminary in Jerusalem to study for the year. While in Israel she met a guy and they decided to get married. The parents did not approve of their potential son-in-law who is described as a "shababnik" - a yeshiva dropout.

Despite her parents' objections, she, and her chosson, decided to go ahead with the wedding anyway.

The parents, unable to convince their daughter to break it off, went to Rabbonim to oppose the wedding, assuming that the kids would call it off if the Rabbonim were against it.

I saw the letter yesterday (but could not get a picture of it) from the Rabbonim decrying the abomination of this guy breaking up a family and them not listening to the rabbonim and people should protest the "nevala".

That did not help either, as the kids decided to still go ahead with the wedding. The wedding was last night, with Haredim in attendance outside the wedding hall in full protest garb. They got a bit violent and police had to come in to the scene.
(pictures are taken from the Ynet article)


  1. I can't believe the rabbis mentioned in the article would sign on such a letter. They cannot forbid people to get married, unless there is a halachic prohibition in the Kiddushin.
    How can one write that the wedding is forbidden by the Torah. Unless there is some detail we don't know.

  2. bohr - based on the minimal details provided, there is plenty we do not know.
    like; why the parents disapprove so vehemently and are willing to break up the family? why would the rabbonim forbid it? she is an adult and halachically can choose her own spouse whether or not the parents approve?
    did the parnets participate or not in the end? the wedding pic looks like they might have had parental support - she is dressed nicely (maybe dress is from a gmach) and they are using a nice car (maybe he has money) as the wedding horse and buggy, so maybe the parents gave in in the end?
    and others..

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  7. I don't get it. the halacha is a child may marry against the wishes of the parent. There is a story of R' Yosher Ber telling his father that halacha when he announced his intentions an d his father was maskim.

    What is this society turning into, where we not only have to control the minutae, but publicly be mevazeh people and protest every detail?

  8. they changed the letter. in the original letter if you check the handwriting it was written its against the wishes of "horeia" her parents but some psychopaths decided that it looked more like it said "hatorah" and changed it.

    on the original letter there are two sets of handwriting. the letter in large is a personal letter to the father asking him to cancel the wedding, definitely not a public letter but it appears as though someone else added lines on top with more chareef words.

  9. anon - there was a third letter but it was handwritten and very difficult to read so I did not bohther putting it up

  10. i want to make sure I understand this.

    Is the boy still frum/shomer shabbos? are they just angry that he left yeshiva?

  11. I did not see anyone claim anywhere that he is not frum. Just a yeshiva dropout. There were claims of his being manipulative and just looking for a way to squeeze money out of her parents. he is supposedly divorced, and some claim he was violent.

    Yet there are counter claims as well saying the divorce was the wife's fault, he was not violent, just did not work out, etc..

    So, who knows?

  12. Rafi, I know you are on Areivim email list. You probably read that D... said that he went to the wedding and he wrote that he is also related to the choson and this whole thing ban is perpetuating a big lie. I wonder what you think of his comment, from an individual with first hand knowledge of both the boy and the situation. His comment opened my eyes a bit more of the situation.

  13. I did not see that email (maybe you can forward it to me?).. I am not great with Areivim. I scan the subject lines for a topic that is interesting to me. Sometimes I delete things by mistake, as I only read about 30% of the emails (maybe even less).

    While I did not see that post, I did see on a couple of Israeli forums descriptions of the situation by people claiming to know the chosson/kallah. Now, one never knows what to believe, because these people are posting anonymously and claim to know intimate details, which often contradict each other.

    For example, one person claims the chosson was previously divorced (he was) and the reason for the divorce was that he beat her violently, and he seduced this girl just so he could get at her fathers money (in a future divorce), etc etc etc.

    While other people claimed to know him (one even being a relative of his previous wife) and saying how great of a guy he is and the divorce had been her fault etc etc etc

  14. I by accident deleted that areivim email. I know however who said it and that he claimed he was there etc..
    Initials are DS. So if you want you can contact him.

  15. the happy couples onlysimcha's engagement page... http://www.onlysimchas.com/v4/index.cfm/fuseaction:simcha.view/simchaid:70847

    ayala gurvitz , menachem greenbaum

  16. Sent.

    You might also recognize him; he's visible in the yediot picture.

  17. All the rabbis who sign this stuff are insane arrgogant maniacs.

    Keep away from these creeps, Oh Israel.

  18. Some of the commentators are puzzled by the letter, others by the lack of knowledge of the details.
    The rabbis do not like to give reasons why they act in a certain way, for privacy/loshon hara issues, and also because they are afraid that people will decide by themselves in outwardly similar cases.
    In this issue I think that the rabbis should be more forthcoming with the ins and outs, so that it does not bring laaz on the rabbis decisions. Since the whole thing has become public, it is IMHO necessary to know what happened, because we don't know the whole story. I don't think it'll happen though.

  19. The parents are another example of pathetic people in the frum world. I recall this personal experience myself. A friend of mine, a very pretty,intelligent and frum girl, a BT, met a FFB guy in Switzerland. The parents banned him from seeing her. Like as if they are some special people. It's not like they are royalty or something. Some parents need a reality check and it's good that their kids gave them one.
    I wish the couple all the best.


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