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Jun 19, 2008
Haredim try to chase family out of building... for wearing kipa sruga
There seems to be a double standard held by some people.
An incident just happened in RBS. A family made aliya from France. This family is a Baal Teshuva family, and there process somehow led them to choose the frummer side of the Dati Leumi lifestyle. The fellow was wearing a black knitted kipa and sends his children to the local mamad school (like a religious public school), but he sets time for learning, he does not have a television, and he has become respected as a fine person and his family as a fine family.
They were recently intending to move to a new apartment. they found an available apartment on Nahal Micha in RBS. When they went to move in, they found a sign hanging on their door saying that this is a Haredi building and their presence is not desired. If they do not leave immediately they should prepare for trouble and the owner will be sued (what for, I am not sure), etc.
The letter was signed by some sort of Vaad for something Crazy in the Neighborhood under the guidance of Rabbi Goldstein.
So, if you thought when they chased the divorced woman and her kids from Nahal Uriah out of town that they were justified because she was a detriment to the area because of her lifestyle, it does not end there.
So what is the double standard?
RBS was originially planned as a secular neighborhopod. It ended up mixed and many Haredim bought in RBS. Eventually the Haredi community became the dominant community in RBS.
So it was ok for Haredim to buy in a secular community, even to the point of taking over. When anybody tried to stop the phenomenon, the haredim screamed "anti-haredi" "democracy" etc.
The area of Bet Shemesh of Ben Yehuda street is outside of the Kirya Haredit. The residents of the Kirya Haredit are feeling a shortage of housing and high prices. they have come to realize that they can expand outwards by purchasing places, at much lower prices, in the adjacent neighborhood on ben Yehuda street. When anybody from that area protests the Haredi takeover, they are immediately silenced as being anti-haredi and the like.
So Haredim can move into non-Haredi areas, and it is legitimate, and nobody can say boo. But when a non-Haredi moves into a Haredi area he is immediately threatened and told to move out.
An incident just happened in RBS. A family made aliya from France. This family is a Baal Teshuva family, and there process somehow led them to choose the frummer side of the Dati Leumi lifestyle. The fellow was wearing a black knitted kipa and sends his children to the local mamad school (like a religious public school), but he sets time for learning, he does not have a television, and he has become respected as a fine person and his family as a fine family.
They were recently intending to move to a new apartment. they found an available apartment on Nahal Micha in RBS. When they went to move in, they found a sign hanging on their door saying that this is a Haredi building and their presence is not desired. If they do not leave immediately they should prepare for trouble and the owner will be sued (what for, I am not sure), etc.
The letter was signed by some sort of Vaad for something Crazy in the Neighborhood under the guidance of Rabbi Goldstein.
So, if you thought when they chased the divorced woman and her kids from Nahal Uriah out of town that they were justified because she was a detriment to the area because of her lifestyle, it does not end there.
So what is the double standard?
RBS was originially planned as a secular neighborhopod. It ended up mixed and many Haredim bought in RBS. Eventually the Haredi community became the dominant community in RBS.
So it was ok for Haredim to buy in a secular community, even to the point of taking over. When anybody tried to stop the phenomenon, the haredim screamed "anti-haredi" "democracy" etc.
The area of Bet Shemesh of Ben Yehuda street is outside of the Kirya Haredit. The residents of the Kirya Haredit are feeling a shortage of housing and high prices. they have come to realize that they can expand outwards by purchasing places, at much lower prices, in the adjacent neighborhood on ben Yehuda street. When anybody from that area protests the Haredi takeover, they are immediately silenced as being anti-haredi and the like.
So Haredim can move into non-Haredi areas, and it is legitimate, and nobody can say boo. But when a non-Haredi moves into a Haredi area he is immediately threatened and told to move out.
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"but he sets time for learning", etc.
ReplyDeleteNo "but" there. Many fine, frum people who learn in the Dati Leumi hevra. You know that. Just visit any yeshivat hesder, Mercaz HaRav, etc. Many fine homes where the center is Hashem's Torah, and all revolves around it.
As for the actual post; sorry but this sounds more and more like a society of hoodlums.
ad choice of words I guess. I did not mean though "but" that even though he is dati leumi he still learns.
ReplyDeleteI was really quoting the person who told me the story. he said that to describe to me that even though he is not haredi, he is still someone who learns and should not be considered a threat to them.
BTW, I just heard that this fellow is so non-confrontational that he switched to a black velvet kipa so as to go low key and not make trouble.
Rafi,
ReplyDeleteI am a bal teshuva and was wondering if you can please explain a concept for me. The word I need to understand is gromoh (not sure about spelling), and is to due with shabbat. A rav has told me that I am allowed to use a toilet that is connected to an electric mechanism because the flushing itself isnt electric but after flushing the water activates the pump. The Rav said it is gromoh, and I think he said it's not normally allowed but is ok for a toilet because he said it is kavod habriyot , again something I'm npt very clear about.
Sorry for asking so much, please help!
How do you know any of this? Can this be verified? Did you contact Rabbi Goldstein? What is the true story here?
ReplyDeleteI find this behavior to be atypical of the Charedim I know in RBS A - which is where I assume this took place.
It's one thing to protest a female resident who was percieved to be promiscuous. Even if they were wrong and it wasn't true - it is at least an understandable fear.
But to protest a Kipah Seruga is so beyond the pale that I find it difficult to believe this story.
From Life in Israel blog (Feb.10th):
ReplyDelete"
Rav Eidensohn, who heads the kupa of RBSA, spoke last Motzei Shabbos at the inaugural dinner of the hooligan kupa. (not last night's kupa shel Tzdaka dinner - this happened the week before) This gives them great legitimacy because he heads the Kupa of RBS A which does great work and already is a large organization with a great reputation.
When asked why he was going to be speaking there (someone present at the conversation told me) considering it gives legitimacy to the hooligans and they will use it to control their neighborhood even though they are a minority within it, he responded that he has to give them legitimacy because otherwise RBS will become too modern."
This statement is from someone supposedly dedicated to chesed and tzedaka in our community who receives hundreds of thousands of tzedaka dollars from all types of people.
Need we say more?
R. Harry, I'm afraid it is all too plausible, as we saw when we were there this past Pesah. Our friends in Alef, who are American Haredi, are thinking of moving out just because they're so embarrassed by what goes on there more and more. My wife has already made it clear that when we return home to Israel, that is the one place she won't live. Quite a few homes on the edge of Alef are being bought or built by families who can't get space where they might prefer. Once they create a little critical mass, they start pressing for what they want.
ReplyDeleteBut, you're right that it needs some verification of some sort.
R. Rafi, I leave it to you to answer Jamie's query. Jamie, why wouldn't you ask your rav for clafification? It is a good way to establish the learning relationship.
mordechai,
ReplyDeleteI did try to ask the Rav to explain it to me but he sort of assumed I knew and it was too embarrasing to explain that I didnt. I hope I can get it explained, I'm really glad I can use that particular bathroom on shabbat but I'd like to undersatnd why.
The only verification I have about the events that took place are from three different people from that area who know the story. I found out about it today while I was at work, and a couple of people emailed me about it and one called me. I did not speak to Rav Goldstein. I assume he did not support it but they used his name.
ReplyDeleteNahal Uriah has come to be known as the Haredi Kasbah of RBS A. That area has become very extreme. Nahal Micha is the road just above it and there has been some spillover and a few buildings there have become very Haredi.
Jamie - grama is when you do something and it causes something else to happen. So because you did not do the "work" directly, there is room to allow things that might otherwise be problematic.
Jamie,
ReplyDeletePlease don't ever be embarrassed to ask questions. We all have them, and it is how we learn. IF you can, go back to your rav and explain 'I'm really lost, and I'm starting from scratch, and I need you to teach me the basics, starting at the basics.'
If you can't, or that doesn't work, you want to find an additional person to learn from.
If you like, get my email from Rafi, or email him, or maybe R. Harry, let us know where you are. Maybe we can help you find additional local resources. There is no substitute for having real live people to learn and live Torah with.
Also, I hope Rafi doesn't mind me plugging another site - visit BeyondBT. It's a nice blog.
plug away... along with any other resources you think are helpful
ReplyDeleteMy wife and I are both close to a lady in town who's husband won't give her a get now for quite a few years now and it seems that he is 'only' holding out for a large 'payout'.
ReplyDeleteGuess who is behind him?
None other than our 'holy' Rav Eidensohn (who recently moved to Israel I think).
There must be a way to shake ourselves from such garbage.
Interesting news, sad, but interesting. Some people eat chalov yisrael outside their homes, maybe this guy will switch back to a kippah that he's more comfortable w/ in his home.
ReplyDeleteMenachem - that is an extremely serious accusation. I do not know that this is the place for it. Especially as that, even if it is accurate, is only one side of the story. Every divorce has two sides of the story.
ReplyDeleteTo accuse Rav Eidensohn of causing an aguna situation seems very inappropriate. I guess you know the details, but for us the accusation is baseless and lashon ha'ra.
I just saw this now, and I am shocked.
ReplyDeletei live on nachal micha. My daughter goes to gan on the block.
I live towards the end of the street, where it is much more diverse.
There are a few facts about the street that need to be pointed out to prove either how wrong these people are, or how i have trouble beliving the story.
1 - there is a new large shul that was just built at the end the block. It is enitrely dati leumi (yom ha'atzmut davening and all). and most of the people who daven there are from Micha and Katlav.
2 - any building that calls themsevles only chareidi is foolish. The block is very diverse and shabbos afternoon there are all kinds of people walking around and playing in the park. It is impossible to live on the street without living close or dealing with a chareidm AND dati leumi on a regular basis. I live on micha, and I do not believe there is a chareidi only building on the block. And even if there is, its stupid to put up a sign like that when the rest of the block is so diverse.
Id like to also add that it is not unusual to see chareidim davening in the dat shul on a regular basis, especially maariv. So why do we want to create this kind of split on such a small street?
I have a hard time believing this story.
my impression is that it is at the beginning of Micha.
ReplyDeleteI know no more details than the ones I wrote here, and these I was told by people who know the story firsthand. I can try to find out which building it is.
whats - it happened in Nahal Micha 7. Maybe you can check what is happening over there with your neighbors and report back
ReplyDelete