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Aug 6, 2009
Getting off the conveyor belt
While Rosenblum does not call directly for a cacellation of the "trend" to send kids to israel, he does call on parents to be more discerning about their children and make more personal decisions, and not just send because everyone else is.
I actually like Rosenblum's article because of the ending. In the various analysis and criticisms I have seen since he wrote it, people have commented a lot on the issue of boys going to Israel and on the style of the yeshivos. but I think Rosenblum was making a bigger point than that. Rosenblum says concluding the article:
It is more than "don't send them to Israel because they will get into trouble". The reason they are getting into trouble is because they are not really dedicated students. They have been riding a train. They were never taught emunah, bitachon and hashkafa. They were just good kids in yeshiva learning the curriculum and were never actually challenged or taught how to deal with anything but a blatte gemara. They were on a conveyor belt until now.The last and most important rule is at the same time the hardest one for parents to fulfill: Know your child. Do not assume that simply because your son has always been a "good boy," who learns well, and does not get into trouble, that you have nothing to worry about. Rabbi David Sapirman, a mechanech in Toronto with forty years experience, writes in a Torah U'mesorah publication, "Why and How to Teach Emunah," of many top notch yeshiva products who "when it comes to emunah . . . neither believe nor disbelieve. He is simply moving along the conveyor belt, which takes him from cradle to kollel. He goes through the motions, and may even be very happy doing so. But his lack of conviction permeates all that he does. These youngsters are as much at risk as the disenchanted, although they may not be aware of it yet. . . . Woe to him, if ever faced with a serious nisayon, like the temptation for something immoral or dishonest. Only real conviction can enable one to withstand temptation, not a robotic life style."
And that is just the point. The time spent learning in Eretz Yisrael, without in many cases adequate supervision or accountability, is filled with many temptations. Before sending one's sons to learn there, parents have to know whether their sons have a real connection to HaKadosh Baruch Hu, whether the image of Yaakov Avinu will confront them in moments of temptation, and whether they are truly filled with aspirations for growth in Torah. Or are they just "good boys," who have never gotten off the conveyor belt. If the latter, caution is advised.
I think he is completely right on that. I remember from my yeshiva days, and I went to decent yeshivas, that all we did was learn gemara. Variety was a short halacha seder in the morning and a short mussar seder in the evening.
Maybe we were meant to glean the lessons of emunah and hashkafa form the gemara, but we were so interested, or should I say involved, in the pilpul, we never knew to, or how to, glean such lessons just from the gemara itself. Those types of topics were never even considered, let alone anybody having the gall to teach it or to ask about it.
The best guys I know today learning in kollel, are guys who have spent time learning seriously from the mussar seforim and hashkafa/emunah seforim.
The reason why ia m writing about this today is because Hamodia has published a number of Letters to the Editor in response to Rosenblum's article. They all, each and every one, ignore this point of Rosenblums. They all deal with whether boys should or should not go to Israel, each one supporting his position with anecdotal "evidence" based on what happened when they or their kids were in Israel.
They are missing the point that the education is lacking. The education our kids are receiving is not one that will prepare our kids to deal with the challenges they will eventually face. Until what age can a parent baby a child and not let him face challenges? We are talking here about boys from ages ranging from 18-23. And they are not prepared to face a year without their parents.
And when they are sent away, based on all the claims (which I think are exaggerated in scope even though they do happen), obviously the education they have received until that point is then proven to have failed, because at the first point of freedom and self-responsibility, these boys are failing the test.
I am willing to say that even if the solution some of these people want, of stopping the "trend" to automatically send the boys to learn in Israel, is implemented, these boys would get into trouble in New York or wherever else they went instead of Israel. They would not be getting into trouble in hafganot looking for excitement, but they would be getting into trouble by hanging out with girls, maybe dabbling in drugs, movies, pool halls, whatever. If the boy is not taught how to deal with the world, he will get in trouble when he is finally exposed to it. There is a limit to how much of an eye a parent can keep on a 20 year old guy, no matter how far from home he is or how close to home he is.
The real solution is not taking away their cellphones or laptops (which might be good ideas anyway), and it is not stopping to send them to Israel (which also might be right for some of them - parents should be discerning and not just do it because everyone else is), but the yeshivas need to improve the curriculum, and the parents need to prepare their kids to face the real world. The kids need to be taken off the conveyor belt.
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My wife and I were active members of a major Kiruv organization. I went to Israel and my wife did not. It was the best decision for each of us. From my wife's year only one girl from the seminary she probably would have gone to came back frum. Years later the same kiruv organization declined a request for Shabbos guests because we might tell a kid not to go to Israel.
ReplyDeleteThere is a major point your article is missing that the likes of Rabbi Sapirman, Rabbi Feigenbaum and Rabbi Orlofsky often point to as the source of this problems. It is the parents who have the converyor belt attitude.
They rely on Kiruv organizations and Yeshiva to teach what is not practiced with sincerity at home. Children see their parents commitment to Judaism as being phoney. Can we blame them for following in the foot steps of their primary role models?
If I'm understanding you correctly, you seem to be disagreeing with the entire charedi educational system- kids need to be challenged, don't just go along with the crowd ie: conveyor belt, kids need to be taught something other than gemara.
ReplyDeleteBut it doesn't seem like the system wants to change. Now what?
As someone pithly commented on Cross-Currents
ReplyDelete"Is it your contention that this is different in the US? Why?
She-nir’eh et nehamat Yerushalayim u-binyanah bi-mherah ve-yamenu"
KT
Joel Rich
HOW come people only have these concerns for boys and not girls?
ReplyDeleteBen - I would guess people are concerned, but this is not an issue relevant to girls. How many sem girls have been arrested or participated in the recent hafganot. This specific issue is relevant to the guys and not to the girls. Other issues will be sem girl relevant.
ReplyDeleteI think it is a major problem that young people between 18-23 years old are not mature enough to be away from home without getting into trouble. That says something about the way children are raised today (both formal education and informal).
ReplyDeleterafi,
ReplyDeleteabsolutely spot on. I would add though that parental responsibility starts before Israel. Parents need to do what's best for the child when choosing a high school yeshiva as well. They cannot just send where everyone else is sending, or because they would have wanted to go there. they need to talk with their child and see hashkafa-wize and practice-wize where the child is holding and make a parental decision that would be best for the childs future growth. sending to the wrong place can sometimes be a worse decision than sending to public school.
I think the issue is just as relevant for girls. Maybe not because they'll join hafganot, but there are many girls - even good Bais Yaakov ones - who have gotten into hanging out with boys at the bars in in merkaz ha'ir.
ReplyDeleteCommenter Abbi is right. Systems take a long time to change and to buck the system, even when you know it's the right thing to do, is difficult because it makes you the outsider or rebel. That takes a lot of courage many parents don't have. If you get too vocal about changing the educational status quo, you'll be labeled. Then you'll never marry off your children because no one want their child marrying the child of such trouble makers. Furthermore there is the feeling that you can't fight city hall, so why bother bringing this negative attention to oneself.
The thing that would contribute most to improving the situation would be for the Yeshivot to change back from being businesses to being Yeshivot.
ReplyDeleteMark
wanna saab:
ReplyDelete1. someone has to be the first.
2. the marriage issue is simply not true. It's a bad excuse used by people afraid to stick their necks out. You may not get a shidduch with people who also are afraid to be noisy, but there are other systems and ways to meet - halachicaly - that will get your kids married.
and before you ask - yes, I have been vocal and am willing to be the first.
I don't think he knows what he is talking about. Any self respecting American Charedi Mesivta/Beis Medrash has a dality mussar seder, and on top of that has a mashgiach and a mussar shmooze and a regular basis.
ReplyDeleteThe only hashkafic seforim that the Yeshvish world learns are mussar seforim.
Instead of Missealas Yesharim, should they teach the Moreh? Kuzari? Why will that be affective way at confronting the violence problem?
Do you know much fun the riots are? You can try and evaluate all sorts of sources, but I myself went to the shabbos riots because they were loads of fun and somewhat justifiable by the fact that the yeshiva system teaches that those in black and white are always right.
ReplyDelete