Nov 29, 2009

The fight over the Taba in RBS C/G/3

Regarding the court case over the tenders in RBS C/G/3:

The court issued a stop order on the tenders and set a date for 2 weeks from now for hearing the two sides of the argument.

I stioll don't understand the argument of Mafdal and why they think the court will support them in stopping the tenders from continuing. I see no reason for the courts to get involved, no matter how right the Mafdal's position might be, and I see no basis for the courts preventing any specific group from being awarded the plots for construction or for the courts to legally stop or allow any specific group from buying in any specific area.

Regardless of that, the mayor and his supporters have been giving interviews since the court announcement. They have been saying the expect nothing but minor delays, as the courts will uphold the city's position. That remains to be seen, but what was interesting is that Yaakov Litzman announced that it turned out to be a good move that Gur signed with Shalom Lerner before the last elections. The reason why it turns out to be a good move, Litzman says, is because that agreement they signed back then will now serve the city well in presenting their case before the court. They will show that Lerner agreed to give the whole RBS 3 to the haredim, and therefore has no right to make any claims now about giving too much to the haredim.

Perhaps the understanding of the document below can be disputed, but the fact is that in the signed agreement below it does not say that Lerner agrees RBS 3 will be given to the haredim. It does say that they both agree that the Taba - the construction planning registered with the Israel Lands Authority, will be the same as RBS A and RBS B.

A statement like that is extremely vague, but it does not mean the haredim, or specifically Gur, will get everything. The fact that RBS A was bought out by about 40%-60% (depending which numbers you believe) over time does not have anything to do with the registration in the Lands Authority. The gareement was per the registration. RBS B was registered and planned as haredi, but RBS A was registered and planned as "Klali" - for the general population.

Perhaps Litzman is looking at the final results of who bought, and see RBS A as haredi even though it is mixed, and is therefore understanding the document that the Taba of C will be haredi just like RBS A and B turned out. But the agreement is only on the Taba, comparing it to the Taba of A and B - not comparing it to the final population mix.


  1. where does it say that rbs3 will go to the charedim?

  2. your question refers to "where" being "where in the document attached?" or where in the general scheme of things that prompted the lawsuit?

  3. What's the practical difference in the designation for the area? Is it merely the marketing of the builders? Or will they change the apartment sizes and building density depending on the designation?

    Certainly building slightly lower density and marketing to the Anglo's and olim seems to have been extremely profitable for the RBS-A builders. Is there any reason they wouldn't repeat it? Are they bound to build at different density levels or styles depending on the designation?

  4. they cannot just change the plans. any change of plans will require a lot of bureaucracy in changing the Taba.

    As far as what they can and cannot do, I don't know. The Mafdal seems to be upset they they see the Lands Authority and the Iryah pushing the kablanim to be building all for haredim, despite the municipal decision to divide it equally among all sectors.

    How the kablanim are obligated I do not know. But if the city is actually pushing a certain market to the detriment of others, it is starting off on the wrong foot and not giving others an equal chance.

  5. I spoke to Shalom Lerner about this before the election. Legally any construction requires a religious designation ahead of time. The designation will change the building requirements for the neighborhood (ie # mikvahs, shuls, parks etc..) There are no restrictions to who can buy after that but what and how you build will determine who moves in.

    The fear is that we are going to create another community like RBS B with all of the problems that go along with it.

    Personally I think any controversy plays into the hands of those who want another RBS B. The social and economic structure of the community allows them to put money down on whatever is built. Other groups are going to be more hesitant with putting down money out of fear that the community will not be a pleasant place to live.

    How come B'Yachad is now being referred to as Mafdal? I thought Mafdal went bust and B'Yachad filled in the political vacuum.

  6. sorry - the name mafdal is just more natural to me. true,, they arent technically mafdal, but byachad was just a marketing name to make mafdal more palatable to non-mafdal voters. To me and most others, they are still mafdal.

    I did not know about that legal requirement...

  7. Mafdal and B'Yachad are just upset that in teh next election they will not be mayor. Again. This is because the chareidim want to move to RBS G. Especially now with the stoppage of building in Beitar and Kiryat Sefer. THIS is the next big chareidi town. RBS G will be the next big chareidi town.

    The chareidim know this. The mafdal knows this. The secular know this. Everyone knows this. This is the only reason why the Mafdal wants to stop it from happening. BC they hate chareidim.

    What do they think should happen instead? Should RBS G never be built?

    Why dont they organize groups of people who are willing to put their money where Lerners mouth is? Ill tell you why not ! Because mafdal'niks dont want to live in RBS G. MO doesnt want to live in RBS G. DL doesnt want to live there. It is the CHAREIDIM who want, and who are willing to put down the big bucks to live there.

    This is a pathetic attempt of Lerner grasping at his last straw.

    Cmon Lerner. Where are all your people? Where are all the people who want to live there? Are you putting down money for a michraz? For 2 of them? For 10 of them? Buy from the chareidim. Play fair, my friend. This is too dirty for a nice chutznik like you.

    Your position for running for mayor was to play nice and play a new type of game. Where is that new game now? Or since you lost are all previous deals off?

  8. This anonymous poster reminds me of a neighbor I have, who voted for Abutbol. His reasoning (in addition to "daas Torah") was that he thinks Lerner seems like a nice guy who won't be able to succeed in politics, and you need to be a bit of a "mamzer" [both quotes are his] to make it here.

    I'm not sure if he realized how these two reasons sound together....

  9. mike - so de facto he was saying that Abutbol is a mamzer (obviously Vaknin was as well)?

    would daas torah tell people to vote for a mamzer?


  10. He doent mean "mamzer" he means politician. But he was being nice :)

    But seriously -- where are the Mafdal buyers?

  11. My wife and I are very happy living in RBS. However we recognize that there is not much recreational activities as our daughter gets older. What happens with Gimmel will probably be a major turning point in the future of the city.

    There are a number of reasons we are not willing to buy on paper. We are worried that we will have our money invested in an apartment that is never completed. With all of the fighting we don't know what kind of community we would be moving into.

    As we have to work and save to afford an apartment (instead of collecting Tzdekah, or demanding from parents as a wedding gift) we would not be in a financial position to pull out should the above scenarios come to fruition.

  12. ehwhy -

    And thats exactly why the chareidim will get RBS G. Because they are willing to take a chance on it. Tons of chareidim are willing to take that chance becasue a) there is nothing else; b) the rabbonim have said to go there; and c) becasue they KNOW it will be chareidi.

    You - and I imagine others in your social group - have too many sefeikos to take that big step.

    But its not just about buying on paper for you thats an issue. That would only take care of ONE problem, that of not getting the apt ever. But in terms of knowing how the area will turn out eventually - you need a settled area, not a new area. Chareidim are more than willing to take a chance.

    I still wonder - where is Lerner's groups? Why are they not making michrazim, and buying from the kablanim?

  13. You mean like buying an apartment on top of a shopping complex and then complaining about the crowds?

    Nothing a few rocks can't fix...


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