Nov 22, 2009

The result of the hafganot

The hafganah of the Eida and its followers against Intel (We should name the weekly Eida Hafgana something like "the what they will protest against next week hafgana") stepped up a notch this week, though the details of that do not interest me all that much.

At hafganot, police provoke, protesters provoke, things get hot, people get hit, people get hurt, people get arrested. The Eida is now complaining that the Gaavad got hit in a scuffle and how dare they, but that is part of the risk of taking part in a [semi-] violent hafgana, so no sympathy from me (though the police could have used more tact and avoided the Gaavad).

What does interest me is a new phenomenon that is being reported by the Haredim website, That is, somebody spray painted the sheim hamefurash on the street leading up to the location of the hafgana. Some rabbonim who saw it said protesters should avoid walkign there, and it is a problem to erase it as well, so they covered it up with carton so people would not inadvertently step on it. The Gaavad himself said it is not a big deal, as a heretic who writes a Torah imbues it with no holiness, and this would be the same.

My point is that this is where the hafganot have taken us. They have done nothing but create fresh hostility and hatred against religion, and they have accomplished nothing in the form of increasing any level of shmiras shabbos by anybody, not publicly nor privately. They are now getting the secular to not just oppose the haredim, but to actually defile the name of God publicly, as a response.


  1. Now that the gaavad was hit, he doesn't have to be moche anymore. Isn't that the din, that one only needs to be moche until the point where one is hit?

  2. but what about everyone else???

    anyway, you propose a good solution. The police should run around hitting everyone at these protests, thus patturing them from the need to participate in any further protest.

    of course that would only work if the protesters are doign their minimum due to an obligation to protest. But if they are protesting because the chillul shabbos really bothers them, they will continue anyway. As well as any other reason - if they are just looking for action, if they are looking for retaking control of Jerusalem, if anything else, they will continue.

    At most, they will find something else to protest against.

  3. it is ad velo ad bichlal, so once we see that they are at the point where they are ready to hit it is enough.

    BTW, I am talking leshitasam, I don't think that these protests should be taking place at all.

  4. Do you still (if you ever did) trust the kashrus of the eda charedis?

    If you don't and you don't use the rabbanut hechsherim, you will be pretty limited as to what you could eat.

    If you do trust them still (and/or use the rabbanut hechsherim), do you think that they should be boycotted?

  5. I do use eida hechsher. It is impossible to avoid it, even if you do use rabbanut, but especially if you do not.

    When I have a choice, and I consciously notice, I will prefer an item with a different mehadrin hechsher over eidah (rubin, chasam sofer, she'airis etc), but as you say, the eida is just on so many products, it is not very practical.

  6. why do still trust the eda after you see how irrational they are?

  7. as I said, it is impossible to avoid. when I have a choice, I take the product with a different hechsher. but a boycott is impossible, as the most basic of products, and too wide a range of products, have eidah hechsher

  8. I don't understand your response. Are you saying that, really you are skeptical about trusting their kashrus, but you eat it anyway, because it is otherwise inconvenient?

    Or do you really absolutely trust them, and you would just prefer to boycott if it were convenient?

  9. we are in a catch 22 situation with the eida kashrut. I too have decided to avoid the eida kashrut whenever possible, but have reached the unfortunate decision that it is just impossible to avoid it.

    How ironic that the money the eida collects, the majority of it coming from chiloni buyers, is being used for such disgraceful (terror) acts. I wish the chiloni majority would pay attention to this and do something.

    What I propose is a write in campaign to all the brand name companies demanding the removal of the eida as their kashrut organization.

    Something must be done.

  10. anon - I am a very trusting person. I would not say "I don't trust them", as I trust almost everybody (often to my detriment).

    I would prefer to avoid them if possible so as not to support them and their ways, and do so when I can.

  11. MrsRBS,

    I think it will take more than that to bring them down.
    But, if you are willing to start a campaign, it is a good start.

    If you really want to bring them down, you will have to expose, some major kashrus mistakes they made. Like certifying traif meat or something.

    I can't prove it, but I have heard of some questionable kashrus practices of the eda charedis. It was from years ago, so perhaps it doesn't say anything about them today. Although, the way they are behaving lately, shows a certain irrational mindset, and I have a feeling that there may be certain motivations which would cause them to overlook certain issues in kashrus.

    In any case, beyond wanting to boycott them, I have some MAJOR reservations on their kashrus, and the fact that all of their certified products also have a rabbanut (which I am also reluctant to rely on completely) is a partial comfort to me.

    So in the interim, if I am starving here is the order in which I will consume food.

    1. Food that has no eda charedis hecsher, and has a reliable "mehadrin level hechsher" along with a rabbanut hechsher.

    2. Food that has eda and another mehadrin hechsher as well.

    3. food that has eda and no other mehadrin hechsher, but has a rabbanut.

    4. food that has only regular rabbanut.
    (I am not sure about the order of 3 and 4. Perhaps it depends on the product.)

    5. unsupervised food.

    6. certified traif.

  12. Does The Ga'ava get the gaul to brand people he never even met and knows nothing about 'heretics' from his Title?

    I mean if you are referred to as THE GA'AVA, then you must full of it.

  13. Who holds they are halachically kofrim? I didn't even realize there was a shita that held that the chilonim are knowledgable enough to be kofrim. If that is really his position (and to my knowledge a chiddush in the poskim) then he is really giving them a lot of credit which I, respectfully, don't think they deserve.

    And even if the spray painted name has no kedusha, how doesn't that bother him?

  14. Menashe - who said it doesn't bother him? maybe it does bother him, but the technical issue of whether they were allowed to walk there was resolved in his mind by the fact that it had no kedusha, despite it bothering him....

  15. Your point is well taken Menashe. This goes to show how bankrupt the Edah Ha'Ra'ah is. They do not even know basic, but mamesh basic halocho (or have even the most minimal level of Ahavas Yisroel which would help them be mekayem the mitzvas Aseh of B'Tzedek Tishpot Es Amisecha where it should be so easy to be mekayem here)

    L'daati, since Chazal say Kol haPosel b'mumo posel - and these goons are constantly paselling everyone who doesn't pick his nose the same way they do as koferim, cholila, b'pashtus they are indeed kofrim on the inside.

    Just remember - chazal say Amalek was able to morph into sheep and hence the severe consequences of Shaul's sin of keeping Amalek's sheep alive. I am not a mechashef but would imagine it's much easier to put on a tallis from sheep's wool and a sheepskin hat and yell shabbes like a raving lunatic than that morphing trick.

    Ad Mosai l'Edah ha'Ro'oh hazos!

  16. The Brisker Rav upon witnessing a hafgunuh, reportedly called the neturei karta tzionim because by protesting they show faith that the won't be utterly destroyed,faith they lacked in prewar Europe where nobody had the courage to demonstrate against far more severe "CARDINAL SINS"

  17. The Brisker Rav upon witnessing a hafgunuh, reportedly called the neturei karta tzionim because by protesting they show faith that the won't be utterly destroyed,faith they lacked in prewar Europe where nobody had the courage to demonstrate against far more severe "CARDINAL SINS"


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