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Jun 15, 2010
Differing Solutions in response to the Supreme Court ruling
There were a number of solutions, each one very different from the other, that were proposed in response to yesterday's Supreme Court ruling declaring the supplementary income welfare given to kollel men to be discriminatory and illegal.
The supplementary income is something like 1000NIS per month given to kollel men who qualify. To qualify, the kollel wife must not work (in addition to the husband not working obviously), they must have 3 children (or more), and no car.
The Supreme Court yesterday ruled that continuing to give this money to haredi kollel men is discriminatory and illegal, since nobody else, specifically university students who would fall under the same qualifications, would receive this money.
University students used to get it as well, but it was taken away from them in the year 2000. It was still given to the kollel men, and at the time the Supreme Court, after having been petitioned on the basis of it being discriminatory, decided not to deal with the issue. Now, 10 years later, they have issued their ruling declaring it discriminatory. The determination is based on how the law giving them the money is structured.
Since this was a legal ruling, and not a governmental issue, I assume it will cause no coalition crisis, and is really just another elitist ruling made by the elitist Supreme Court who are more racist and discriminatory than any body in the country they will ever rule over.
I don't foresee much of an issue, because I expect our wonderful politicians to work it out so that if this money cannot be given this way it will simply be given another way. There is no lack of methods to funnel money to interest groups, and after some creative thinking I imagine it should not be much of a problem to find another way to get this money to the kollel guys.
I find the range of differing responses and solutions to be the interesting part of the story.
Shas members have said that they will work to make it non-discriminatory. They will change the law to say that anybody, even university students, can qualify for this money, under the same criteria. They say this knowing that there will be almost no university students qualifying for it. How many university students are there that are married with three or more children with no income (and no spousal income) and no car? Very few if any. So if they succeed in changing the law to include them, it will no longer be discriminatory, even if no university students will actually qualify for the money.
Rav Yuval Cherlo's response is that the issue of the money is discriminatory and the Supreme Court is correct. However, there is nothing wrong with a Jewish country having values that support learning, and perhaps some sort of priority system should be devised to support to a certain extent the study of Torah. At the same time, the haredi community should really be reorganizing their system so as to take less and less of such welfare moneys - to avoid a culture of destitution and to avoid chilul hashem as per the Rambam, and it not being the Torah way. That being said, this is not an issue for the Supreme Court, but the internal Torah community should be working this out on their own and it is wrong to force a system on a community.
The UTJ MKs simply ranted about the anti-haredi courts.
The gedolim voiced their concerns that Israel's only sustenance is really because it supports Torah learning. If they go the route of cutting out that support, Israel will not have a justification for its existence and will disintegrate. America will stop sending Israel money, and Israel will fall apart. Rav Shteinman and Rav Kanievsky supposedly said that every time the Israeli system takes away money from yeshivas and kollels, they have trouble with money from the USA.
The supplementary income is something like 1000NIS per month given to kollel men who qualify. To qualify, the kollel wife must not work (in addition to the husband not working obviously), they must have 3 children (or more), and no car.
The Supreme Court yesterday ruled that continuing to give this money to haredi kollel men is discriminatory and illegal, since nobody else, specifically university students who would fall under the same qualifications, would receive this money.
University students used to get it as well, but it was taken away from them in the year 2000. It was still given to the kollel men, and at the time the Supreme Court, after having been petitioned on the basis of it being discriminatory, decided not to deal with the issue. Now, 10 years later, they have issued their ruling declaring it discriminatory. The determination is based on how the law giving them the money is structured.
Since this was a legal ruling, and not a governmental issue, I assume it will cause no coalition crisis, and is really just another elitist ruling made by the elitist Supreme Court who are more racist and discriminatory than any body in the country they will ever rule over.
I don't foresee much of an issue, because I expect our wonderful politicians to work it out so that if this money cannot be given this way it will simply be given another way. There is no lack of methods to funnel money to interest groups, and after some creative thinking I imagine it should not be much of a problem to find another way to get this money to the kollel guys.
I find the range of differing responses and solutions to be the interesting part of the story.
Shas members have said that they will work to make it non-discriminatory. They will change the law to say that anybody, even university students, can qualify for this money, under the same criteria. They say this knowing that there will be almost no university students qualifying for it. How many university students are there that are married with three or more children with no income (and no spousal income) and no car? Very few if any. So if they succeed in changing the law to include them, it will no longer be discriminatory, even if no university students will actually qualify for the money.
Rav Yuval Cherlo's response is that the issue of the money is discriminatory and the Supreme Court is correct. However, there is nothing wrong with a Jewish country having values that support learning, and perhaps some sort of priority system should be devised to support to a certain extent the study of Torah. At the same time, the haredi community should really be reorganizing their system so as to take less and less of such welfare moneys - to avoid a culture of destitution and to avoid chilul hashem as per the Rambam, and it not being the Torah way. That being said, this is not an issue for the Supreme Court, but the internal Torah community should be working this out on their own and it is wrong to force a system on a community.
The UTJ MKs simply ranted about the anti-haredi courts.
The gedolim voiced their concerns that Israel's only sustenance is really because it supports Torah learning. If they go the route of cutting out that support, Israel will not have a justification for its existence and will disintegrate. America will stop sending Israel money, and Israel will fall apart. Rav Shteinman and Rav Kanievsky supposedly said that every time the Israeli system takes away money from yeshivas and kollels, they have trouble with money from the USA.
Labels:
haredim,
kollel,
money,
Supreme Court
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The problem with the argument that the Jewish State should support the highest of Jewish values, i.e. Torah learning, is that the 1000 NIS/month (I thought it was more like 700 NIS, but whatever) is not supporting Torah learning. It is giving pocket money to kollel families to help them get by in their state of destituteness. (No red squiggly line, so that must be a word.)
ReplyDeleteThe obvious solution is to donate to Kupat Ha'Ir.
ReplyDelete> The gedolim voiced their concerns that Israel's only sustenance is really because it supports Torah learning
ReplyDeleteI doubt there's a single Chareidi guy out there who's saying to himself "Shteig harder Fishel, the State needs your learning to survive!"
Should Israel support Torah learning? Yes, but it can afford to be picky and support that Torah which recognizes the value of the State instead of spitting on it every chance it gets.
Here's an interesting thought: Sure, we'll give money to any kollel that starts the day with Tfillah L'shlom haMedinah.
ex - I think 700NIS is the stipend designated for kollel men. That is not the issue. The issue under discussion is the additional 1000NIS qualified for under the category of "Havtachat Hachnasa" (sometimes also know as Hashlamat Hachnasa) which you only qualify for if you have 3 kids, no car and neither you nor the spouse works. It is a supplementary welfare stipend that is qualified for separately
ReplyDeleteWhat is interesting is that the state and/or society already has been supporting Torah study in many ways.
ReplyDeleteFor one thing, money goes to yeshivot based on how many students they have. The military service deferment is a HUGE thing. Single yeshiva students and married ones are eligible for several types of assistance. And let's not forget that the lower schools are heavily funded, despite not meeting normative educational standards.
Chareidi society in general has been subsidized for a long time. In no other industrialized, productive, exporting society do you find more than half the men and women in a particular group simply not working. This isn't a re-creation of Eastern Europe; it is a new, mutant society which fits no previous Jewish model.
The very fact that the calendar, daily rythms, etc. of Israeli society are so unique is a support of Torah. The fact that a Jew in Tzahal or private industry can expect certain compensations for his religious needs is already a support of Torah. The fact that national law on the books requires at least that Torah be considered and consulted is a support of Torah.
The problem is, all that support has been squandered. We, who sit in the beit midrash, have wasted and demeaned all that good will; and now it is running out. As well it should...
The obvious solution is to donate to Kupat Ha'Ir.
ReplyDeleteMade my day.
This isn't a re-creation of Eastern Europe; it is a new, mutant society which fits no previous Jewish model.
ReplyDeleteIn the shtetl, if you were able-bodied and you didn't work, you starved. Simple as that.
Mark
whoever made that comment about kupat hair made my day.....
ReplyDeletemore importantly, why does Israel still need US money? Maybe it's a good thing that we stop taking money from the US, then we can finally make decisions for ourselves....Israel is a thriving first world society, why are we still shnorring?
The government should set an example for the Chareidim.
I am pretty sure that Rav Meir Kahane advocated that course of action anyhow.
Excellent points, Mordechai Scher. The haredim, had they been truly appreciative of the opp to learn Torah and get paid to do so, could have demonstrated a tremendous kiddush hashem by expressing their gratitude and honoring those who paid into the system and defended their borders. Instead, they acted with haughtiness, demanded more and more, and brought shame upon their religion by teaching successive generations of Israelis through their actions that "authentic" Judaism is parasitic.
ReplyDeletegreat post mordechai
ReplyDeleteI actually like the parallel with universities and don't think it would be such a bad thing if only the elite learners were able to enjoy a life of learning at the taxpayers' expense.
ReplyDeleteI welcome the introduction of:
- Entrance exams, so only the best and brightest talmidim are accepted.
- Attendance records
- Exams/ continuous assessment.
Those that are not willing or able to learn under these conditions should get a job or perform a public service - if it's good enough for a DL 18 year old girl, there's no reason why they can't get their hands dirty.
The non-religious in Israel would probably be much happier to allow haredim to learn under these 'controlled' conditions. At the moment, we have no way of knowing who is truly learning and who is hanging round smoking at the door of the bais midrash.