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Jul 24, 2008

Kannoim of RBS riot over what they call a pogrom

A big deal is being made in over a local incident that occurred in Bet Shemesh.

The other day, a small group of people (of the kannoim of RBS B) took over an empty plot of land and put down 2 caravans and called it a shul. Yesterday morning, the iryah sent in their tractors, after having sent tzavei pinui (orders to evacuate the premises) that were ignored, and removed the shul, destorying it in the process. The Eidah has distributed pictures calling it a pogrom.

In response to the Iryah's move, the kannoim of RBS B have rioted yesterday and today, attacking a city vehicle, and then burning it, and destroying other city equipment as well.

While perhaps the City's response was heavy handed, and maybe they should not have destroyed the shul, I do not see why people are upset at the City and saying Vaknin is anti-Haredi over this.
A small group of people took over a plot of land that was slated for something else. I am told it was meant to be a park for those in the immediate vicinity. Supposedly neighbors called City Hall and complained when these people put down the caravans - they saw "their plot of land for their park" being usurped for a decrepit caravan so 10 people could daven in their own shul.

I see nothing wrong with the city throwing them out and removing their caravan. You want a plot of land, petition the city. If they see the request is justified, they will get it. I am not aware of any kehilla in all of Bet Shemesh that was denied a request for land for a shul. But to go and steal a plot of land so you can establish a status quo hoping people will not fight back, they took a risk and their bluff was called. The neighbors called it in, and the City responded.

Don't let them pull the wool over your eyes projecting this as an example of how anti-Haredi Bet Shemesh is. They stole a piece of land, and it was taken back. In no city in Israel, in no city in the world, would or could the authorities allow such a theft to go unanswered.


  1. Ironic placement of your two posts dealing with Kannois adjacent to each other.

  2. what does kannoim mean>

  3. zealots, extremists, fanatics...

  4. The GRA is having trouble getting a proper plot of land, arent they? Looks like 300 people daven there on shabbos.

    Also Bnei Yeshivos have not been able to get a plot of land on a street and instead have been offered a plot of land "off the beaten track" - quite literally to what i understand, when a "proper" piece of land is available.

    Moving on to chadorim - Tashbar, zos leyehudah, mishkenos yaakov - all have measley caravanim for classrooms, not a normal building. This is true all the time while that chiloni school on sorek - who does not service many people from rbs - has a full building. In fact i heard from a teacher at a similar type of school that they cant even get a first grade class.

    Beis yaakov mishkenos daas is in the matnas as they have not been given a building.

    When you put everything in perspective, the irriyah and danny comes out as looking mighty anti chareidi. Even if your one little story is not a good example

  5. Vaknin has a history of doing things that are ati-haredi (or at least get defined that way) and doing many things for the haredim (which is why degel has been a big supporter of his the past 5 years and is supposedly leaning to supporting him in the upcoming elections.

    I am not going to respond school by school, because each case has a specific reason, and I do not remember them all. They are all history - some of the schools with buildings (like the hiloni one) has been around a long time before the schools you mentioned were ever opened. o they had the building already.
    The Gra has a nice plot of land - they just never had the money to build on it. That is why they put the "manad" there instead. I know, as I pay building fund dues to the Gra, and was semi-involved in the Gra at the time..

    And I never claimed Vaknin is a big friend of the Haredim (even though Degel thinks he is reasonable. People can probably tell you dozens of stories in which Vaknin shows himself to be at least slightly anti-Haredi.

    I just said this case, which they are making a big deal out of, is not a good example of that. It is not anti-Haredi sentiments that caused this situation. It is a few people going in and trying to steal a plot of land that was designated for other uses. They can apply for a plot like everyone else, get the proper ishurim and put their caravan on what they are given.

  6. Wow I didn't know all that was happening in Beith Shemesh.

  7. Check out the latest English Mishpacha magazine, in the article on autopsies. The guy featured in the article, whose wife was murdered and who led violent protests to prevent her being autopsied, says something like "Whenever we use violence we get what we want, so we need to continue using it, even if it inconveniences people in our community" (Unfortunately I don't have the article with me so this is a paraphrase from memory) Is this now the mainstream attitude towards kanaus in the charedi world?

  8. Dear Shlomo, although it is true what Rafi says, that it is silly to try an usurp a plot from another person with violence, neverthless, that man in the Mishpocha article is pointing out that sometimes, the protests are necessary. In fact, the autopsy "fight" is real for those who live in Israel and unfortunately, it hasn't been a simple matter of just petitioning the government to use MRI's.

  9. the protests are necessary.

    No, destruction of property and/or physical violence is not permitted for kavod hameis, nor for almost any other reason it's used. End of discussion.

    The fact that there are no other alternatives that have proven successful are irrelevant.

  10. Hey first time here.. nice blog

    For some reason I'm not surprised. We have kanoim everywhere today - most notably in RBS, Geula and in the other side of the atlantic, in Krias Yoel.

    Which kanoim are more extreme in your opinion, the US ones or the Israeli?


  11. YK - I think Israel. The real danger is when regular people take on views of the kannoim thinking they are mainstream, and that happens more in ISrael, even if sometimes the kannoim in the US might be harsher on specific issues.


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