For sure such behavior is heinous and adults engaging in such contact are committing outrageous misconduct on the children. I agree 1000%.
The problem I have with David Morris's crusade is three-fold:
(1) he publishes details of allegations when they are not yet proven in court. While his legal advisors no doubt counsel him that his "reporting" is within the letter of the Israeli law by not naming names - what about ethics and Halacha? To report on specific people (yes not my name but people can figure out...) come on "a Bklyn tourist from a prestigious Rabbinic family" seems Morris is looking for publicity. Why is the fact he is the son of a prestigious Rabbinic family relevant? Furthermore, should we not presume innocence until proven otherwise? Is every accused guilty?
(2) Morris alarms people. He makes it so that one is afraid of even speaking to a child in the street (ask for directions, ask what school they attend and if they are happy there, ask if they like the neighborhood). What if you go to a park and have snacks for your own kids and want to be generous and give to some other kids as well. How can you - if someone sees it and reports you for taking an interest in a "strange child". You can end up on his blog..."an anglo man approx 40 yo wearing a blue suit was seen handing out candy to children in Ayalon Park... He lives on Nachal Luz....parents beware..." This hysteria is getting absurd. Yes, unfortunately THERE ARE bad people I am not saying "close your eyes" but it is not like Morris wants us all to think. He is like the Gestapo he tells people to report any suspicious activity. Its overshoot and exaggeration. Basically, people are afraid of even talking to kids they do not know for fear of being accused.
(3) This leads me to wonder ... does Morris draw a salary fom L'Eman Achai? Does he benefit in any way financially from all of this hype and publicity thru donations and fund raising? Is he purely a non paid officer with L'Eman Achai or any other of these organizations? Has he ever disclosed the financial reports of L'Eman Achai?
Whether or not you agree with David's focus or reporting, your third point is slanderous and totally uncalled for. Lema'an Achai is an Israeli-registered Amuta, and as such, has to file publicly-available financial statements. The fact that you've not seen them, or don't know how to go look them up, does not mean that they are not easily available to anyone with an interest. As to whether or not David draws a salary - I do not believe he does; David is a businessman in high-tech area, which is his source of income.
Your insinuations of financial impropriety, with absolutely _no_ basis in fact and not even any credible alegations, more than likely forms into the category of Motzi Shem Rah.
Bentzi....typical response from the chareidi drones...
Do any of the cases reported refer to such things as giving out candy to kids, or rather adults ARRESTED for allegations of SEXUAL ABUSE.
Let me pose it this way..if someone was arrested for allegedly RAPING YOUR wife, how would you react? It has been said many times already..the ONLY way to circumvent the hush hush attitude of the local chareidi leadership (oxymoron) is to be vigilant to the other extreme. Unfortunately we have been left with no other choice. Our kids safety and mental health are most important.....not your worries about shiduchim and which high school your kid will be accepted to
Thank you for your feedback. It is important that this issue, which is highly sensitive and complex, is openly discussed and debated. Thank you Rafi for providing a platform for this!
I will endeavor to briefly address the important points you raise Bentzi. (If you wish to discuss them further, you are also welcome to phone me or write to me directly).
1. Publishing details before conviction: According to a psak halacha we have received, we are permitted, and in some circumstances obligated, to inform the public of such risks - even prior to a conviction. We are permitted to say "we do not know if there is fire, but there is definitely smoke".
The detail about the rabbinical family is to make the point that there is no connection between someone's outside piety (without kippa, with kippa, with shtreimel..) and whether they may be afflicted with pedophilia.
2. "Morris alarms people". In this field, ignorance is not bliss. Unfortunately, pedophiles thrive on secrecy and naïveté.
Some of the people now under police investigation, have allegedly operated under the noses of the community for years.
The MAJORITY of known child abuse cases in Bet Shemesh (population around 100,000) are happening in Ramat Bet Shemesh Aleph (population 20,000).
Friends and neighbors, we *do* have a problem, and the quiet (“besheket”) approach has failed.
If the alternative to inertia is alarm – then yes, some alarm is called for.
3. “Does Morris draw a salary”: My day-job is in the field of high tech marketing (plug: anyone out there wanna buy some electro-optics?). I am a volunteer and receive no benefit for my 10 years of work for Lema’an Achai and other public works.
I have become involved in the field of child abuse, because victims and their families have approached me over the years to help them.
I still have not learned my lesson. on these posts I should disable comments. this post was not meant to start an open forum (which is really always invited), but to link to the post on Tzedek-tzedek.
I am thankful to David's response and have a sense of where he is coming from.
BTW No Mr or Ms poster # 2 and 3 - I am not a "Charedi drone". I hope your stock market moves are not as off base as your thinking I am Charedi!! And I am certainly no drone!!
I do agree with various points made by David.
But I do also want to restate the following:
(1) Again, David, by providing certain key details of the accused you are really giving out the ID of the person. I hear what you are saying, you have your psak, but I do think you should militate in favor of giving a more bland description rather than providing the ID of the alleged perp. People should be presumed innocent. Not everyone is always guilty. Mistakes are made and being accused of this type of universally condemned behavior is the death knell socially and possibly economically. Obviously most people will steer clear of such an individual. Please keep this in mind.
(2) If some of the accused have been doing this for years this is a terrible reflection on the 'community" for allowing this if it was known. They are co-conspirators who aided and abetted these criminal acts. Again, "IF" is the key. I have no idea of what you allege is correct (operating for years) but IF true its a terrible sin all by itself.
But...again you do not address at all my point that you are creating a chul like environment where it is forbidden to even talk or offer a snack to any minor because the adult may be accused as "dangerous". I do not want to trade a nice way of life for one like in the States where in cities no one even bothers to help a kid crying or he/she may be accused of "abuse". In the US if you see a kid in the park and they ask you for a ride back to their house you ignore them or walk away. If you pick up your kid in school and a classmate asks for a ride you would say "no" No snacks to anyone but your own kids. You get my point.
Do we really want to live this way? Dont have anything to do with any child.
If you are lost dont ask for directions?
Is this the price you think is reasonable?
(3) Can you either publicly disclose (on this blog or your own blog or give an easy link) to Leman Achai's financial reports? It would be nice to see some disclosure since none of the tzedaka orgs, yeshivot, synagogues seem to disclose these things. When I say disclose I mean to disseminate to the public. I realize they file with the government. It seems to me I would rather donate to an org that is run well financially (low overhead, no salaries for heads, etc). If I can compare disclosures I can make a better informed decision.
Thanks for your time responding and for your efforts in combating these tragic crimes.
I wonder where Bentzi davens as he seems to echo the rantings of a particular "rav" in this community who has nothing better to do than attack David Morris.
(And it is probably due to this rav's reputation for looking after the perps and not the victims that makes RBS so enticing to molestors).
You must be speaking of the "rav" who invests so much energy in posuling mikvaos and witch hunting kashrus but couldn't care less about the amount of alleged molestors in our fair city.
He is a disgrace to the Torah and I would suggest that he move out of RBS but alas he doesn't even really live here (just likes to ruin lives of the people who do).
I see you removed my post that I had written in response to "anonymous" and my post to David where I acknowledged his points although I still asked some follow ups (which of course are unanswered due to your removal of my post) and I requested that he disseminate to the community the financial report of Leman Achai (AND I think all Tzedaka organizations should do the same.)
Why did you censor out my post? There was no bad language nor any other misdeed. Is it a sin to ask that he disseminate the financial reports of L'Eman Achai? Is this forbidden to ask for?
I think by removing my post you are being unfair and what is even more unfair is that you let additional comments on after you implied you would disable comments. I guess you do not want honest and vigorous debate but rather you are as narrow minded as the people you often criticize.
However, you raise an interesting question about NPO's publishing their annual accounts. (Not sure why it's related to child abuse, but anyway...).
All Israeli NPO's which obtain Seif 46 Tax Exempt Status are required to submit annual, audited (by a third party) Financial and (this is relativaly new) Activities Reports to the Charities Commission (part of the Justice Ministry), and also to the Ministry of Finance.
They can also spot-checked every few years, and this entails several days of re-auditing by the Ministry of Justice representatives.
The reports are available to the public at the Charities Commission.
This is another good reason to donate to charities which are Tax Exempt in Israel - there's been a high level of financial and operational due dilligence.
Very few charities in Israel publish their Financial Reports beyond that.
There is a recent trend in the USA for NPOs to voluntarily publish their Reports, somewhat like publicly traded companies, on their websites etc.
This is in order to give the wider public the opportunity to view how "their" charities are using "their" money.
I am personally in favour of such transparency and openness - and would favour, for example, the Israel Charities Commission putting all this data on their website.
However, I think it will take a while for this level of openness to become accepted practice for NPOs in Israel.
In the meantime, you should stop off at the Resham Amutot and peruse all the NPO's you are interested to research (for a small charge per sheet you print out).
I hope this is helpful and, again, if you wish to contact me about any of your interests or concerns, you are warmly invited!
I just did a search in my email (all comments come to my email as well). I see your comment response to David. I did not remove it, but it has happened that blogger has glitches of disappearing comments on occasion, and they generally come back eventually. I can repost it for you, or we can wait and see what happens.
What is your obsession with Lema'an Achai? Are you one of those "dybuk" like souls that just can't stand Lema'an Achai and rips their posters from shuls and buildings?
Lema'an Achai is a Seif 46 and therefore its records are public. They don't have a parallel organziation/business to cover up their salaries and overhead. Everything there is 100% transparent.
As a donor I had questions about them and received answers. I also donate to another organization in town and while I support their work I don't find them near as open and cooperative as Lema'an Achai.
So Bentzi if you are a Lema'an Achai donor (or plan to be) do your research. If you are not (and don't intend to be) leave them and Morris alone and let them continue to do their amazing work.
They are making this a better place for the residents. Can you say the same thing about yourself?
For sure such behavior is heinous and adults engaging in such contact are committing outrageous misconduct on the children. I agree 1000%.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have with David Morris's crusade is three-fold:
(1) he publishes details of allegations when they are not yet proven in court. While his legal advisors no doubt counsel him that his "reporting" is within the letter of the Israeli law by not naming names - what about ethics and Halacha? To report on specific people (yes not my name but people can figure out...) come on "a Bklyn tourist from a prestigious Rabbinic family" seems Morris is looking for publicity. Why is the fact he is the son of a prestigious Rabbinic family relevant? Furthermore, should we not presume innocence until proven otherwise? Is every accused guilty?
(2) Morris alarms people. He makes it so that one is afraid of even speaking to a child in the street (ask for directions, ask what school they attend and if they are happy there, ask if they like the neighborhood). What if you go to a park and have snacks for your own kids and want to be generous and give to some other kids as well. How can you - if someone sees it and reports you for taking an interest in a "strange child". You can end up on his blog..."an anglo man approx 40 yo wearing a blue suit was seen handing out candy to children in Ayalon Park... He lives on Nachal Luz....parents beware..." This hysteria is getting absurd.
Yes, unfortunately THERE ARE bad people I am not saying "close your eyes" but it is not like Morris wants us all to think. He is like the Gestapo he tells people to report any suspicious activity. Its overshoot and exaggeration. Basically, people are afraid of even talking to kids they do not know for fear of being accused.
(3) This leads me to wonder ... does Morris draw a salary fom L'Eman Achai? Does he benefit in any way financially from all of this hype and publicity thru donations and fund raising? Is he purely a non paid officer with L'Eman Achai or any other of these organizations? Has he ever disclosed the financial reports of L'Eman Achai?
Bentzi,
ReplyDeleteWhether or not you agree with David's focus or reporting, your third point is slanderous and totally uncalled for. Lema'an Achai is an Israeli-registered Amuta, and as such, has to file publicly-available financial statements. The fact that you've not seen them, or don't know how to go look them up, does not mean that they are not easily available to anyone with an interest. As to whether or not David draws a salary - I do not believe he does; David is a businessman in high-tech area, which is his source of income.
Your insinuations of financial impropriety, with absolutely _no_ basis in fact and not even any credible alegations, more than likely forms into the category of Motzi Shem Rah.
Bentzi....typical response from the chareidi drones...
ReplyDeleteDo any of the cases reported refer to such things as giving out candy to kids, or rather adults ARRESTED for allegations of SEXUAL ABUSE.
Let me pose it this way..if someone was arrested for allegedly RAPING YOUR wife, how would you react? It has been said many times already..the ONLY way to circumvent the hush hush attitude of the local chareidi leadership (oxymoron) is to be vigilant to the other extreme. Unfortunately we have been left with no other choice. Our kids safety and mental health are most important.....not your worries about shiduchim and which high school your kid will be accepted to
Hi Bentzi
ReplyDeleteThank you for your feedback. It is important that this issue, which is highly sensitive and complex, is openly discussed and debated. Thank you Rafi for providing a platform for this!
I will endeavor to briefly address the important points you raise Bentzi. (If you wish to discuss them further, you are also welcome to phone me or write to me directly).
1. Publishing details before conviction: According to a psak halacha we have received, we are permitted, and in some circumstances obligated, to inform the public of such risks - even prior to a conviction. We are permitted to say "we do not know if there is fire, but there is definitely smoke".
The detail about the rabbinical family is to make the point that there is no connection between someone's outside piety (without kippa, with kippa, with shtreimel..) and whether they may be afflicted with pedophilia.
2. "Morris alarms people". In this field, ignorance is not bliss. Unfortunately, pedophiles thrive on secrecy and naïveté.
Some of the people now under police investigation, have allegedly operated under the noses of the community for years.
The MAJORITY of known child abuse cases in Bet Shemesh (population around 100,000) are happening in Ramat Bet Shemesh Aleph (population 20,000).
Friends and neighbors, we *do* have a problem, and the quiet (“besheket”) approach has failed.
If the alternative to inertia is alarm – then yes, some alarm is called for.
3. “Does Morris draw a salary”: My day-job is in the field of high tech marketing (plug: anyone out there wanna buy some electro-optics?). I am a volunteer and receive no benefit for my 10 years of work for Lema’an Achai and other public works.
I have become involved in the field of child abuse, because victims and their families have approached me over the years to help them.
Bentzi - Take care and do feel free to call me!
Best regs
David
I still have not learned my lesson. on these posts I should disable comments. this post was not meant to start an open forum (which is really always invited), but to link to the post on Tzedek-tzedek.
ReplyDeleteI am thankful to David's response and have a sense of where he is coming from.
ReplyDeleteBTW No Mr or Ms poster # 2 and 3 - I am not a "Charedi drone". I hope your stock market moves are not as off base as your thinking I am Charedi!! And I am certainly no drone!!
I do agree with various points made by David.
But I do also want to restate the following:
(1) Again, David, by providing certain key details of the accused you are really giving out the ID of the person. I hear what you are saying, you have your psak, but I do think you should militate in favor of giving a more bland description rather than providing the ID of the alleged perp. People should be presumed innocent. Not everyone is always guilty. Mistakes are made and being accused of this type of universally condemned behavior is the death knell socially and possibly economically. Obviously most people will steer clear of such an individual. Please keep this in mind.
(2) If some of the accused have been doing this for years this is a terrible reflection on the 'community" for allowing this if it was known. They are co-conspirators who aided and abetted these criminal acts. Again, "IF" is the key. I have no idea of what you allege is correct (operating for years) but IF true its a terrible sin all by itself.
But...again you do not address
at all my point that you are creating a chul like environment where it is forbidden to even talk or offer a snack to any minor because the adult may be accused as "dangerous". I do not want to trade a nice way of life for one like in the States where in cities no one even bothers to help a kid crying or he/she may be accused of "abuse". In the US if you see a kid in the park and they ask you for a ride back to their house you ignore them or walk away. If you pick up your kid in school and a classmate asks for a ride you would say "no" No snacks to anyone but your own kids. You get my point.
Do we really want to live this way? Dont have anything to do with any child.
If you are lost dont ask for directions?
Is this the price you think is reasonable?
(3) Can you either publicly disclose (on this blog or your own blog or give an easy link) to Leman Achai's financial reports? It would be nice to see some disclosure since none of the tzedaka orgs, yeshivot, synagogues seem to disclose these things. When I say disclose I mean to disseminate to the public. I realize they file with the government. It seems to me I would rather donate to an org that is run well financially (low overhead, no salaries for heads, etc). If I can compare disclosures I can make a better informed decision.
Thanks for your time responding and for your efforts in combating these tragic crimes.
I wonder where Bentzi davens as he seems to echo the rantings of a particular "rav" in this community who has nothing better to do than attack David Morris.
ReplyDelete(And it is probably due to this rav's reputation for looking after the perps and not the victims that makes RBS so enticing to molestors).
RBS,
ReplyDeleteYou must be speaking of the "rav" who invests so much energy in posuling mikvaos and witch hunting kashrus but couldn't care less about the amount of alleged molestors in our fair city.
He is a disgrace to the Torah and I would suggest that he move out of RBS but alas he doesn't even really live here (just likes to ruin lives of the people who do).
I see you removed my post that I had written in response to "anonymous" and my post to David where I acknowledged his points although I still asked some follow ups (which of course are unanswered due to your removal of my post) and I requested that he disseminate to the community the financial report of Leman Achai (AND I think all Tzedaka organizations should do the same.)
ReplyDeleteWhy did you censor out my post?
There was no bad language nor any other misdeed. Is it a sin to ask that he disseminate the financial reports of L'Eman Achai? Is this forbidden to ask for?
I think by removing my post you are being unfair and what is even more unfair is that you let additional comments on after you implied you would disable comments.
I guess you do not want honest and vigorous debate but rather you are as narrow minded as the people you often criticize.
I dont know what you are talking about. I did not remove any posts.
ReplyDeleteI dont remember seeing the posts you refer to - maybe you never actually submitted them somehow?
Hi Bentzi (again!)
ReplyDeleteI can't respond about Rafi's editorial policy...
However, you raise an interesting question about NPO's publishing their annual accounts. (Not sure why it's related to child abuse, but anyway...).
All Israeli NPO's which obtain Seif 46 Tax Exempt Status are required to submit annual, audited (by a third party) Financial and (this is relativaly new) Activities Reports to the Charities Commission (part of the Justice Ministry), and also to the Ministry of Finance.
They can also spot-checked every few years, and this entails several days of re-auditing by the Ministry of Justice representatives.
The reports are available to the public at the Charities Commission.
This is another good reason to donate to charities which are Tax Exempt in Israel - there's been a high level of financial and operational due dilligence.
Very few charities in Israel publish their Financial Reports beyond that.
There is a recent trend in the USA for NPOs to voluntarily publish their Reports, somewhat like publicly traded companies, on their websites etc.
This is in order to give the wider public the opportunity to view how "their" charities are using "their" money.
I am personally in favour of such transparency and openness - and would favour, for example, the Israel Charities Commission putting all this data on their website.
However, I think it will take a while for this level of openness to become accepted practice for NPOs in Israel.
In the meantime, you should stop off at the Resham Amutot and peruse all the NPO's you are interested to research (for a small charge per sheet you print out).
I hope this is helpful and, again, if you wish to contact me about any of your interests or concerns, you are warmly invited!
I just did a search in my email (all comments come to my email as well).
ReplyDeleteI see your comment response to David. I did not remove it, but it has happened that blogger has glitches of disappearing comments on occasion, and they generally come back eventually.
I can repost it for you, or we can wait and see what happens.
Bentzi,
ReplyDeleteWhat is your obsession with Lema'an Achai? Are you one of those "dybuk" like souls that just can't stand Lema'an Achai and rips their posters from shuls and buildings?
Lema'an Achai is a Seif 46 and therefore its records are public. They don't have a parallel organziation/business to cover up their salaries and overhead. Everything there is 100% transparent.
As a donor I had questions about them and received answers. I also donate to another organization in town and while I support their work I don't find them near as open and cooperative as Lema'an Achai.
So Bentzi if you are a Lema'an Achai donor (or plan to be) do your research. If you are not (and don't intend to be) leave them and Morris alone and let them continue to do their amazing work.
They are making this a better place for the residents. Can you say the same thing about yourself?