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Jan 3, 2012
In Defense of Their Silence
An Anonymous Guest Post
In Defense of Their Silence
There has been an uproar in recent weeks about the silence of the Charedi rabbonim in regard to mistreatment of and violence against women and children. Much of the complaining has actually emanated from within the Charedi community itself. Many of the “men (and women) on the street” in the Charedi community are appalled at the behavior of these select few and the reluctance of their own rabbis to condemn these actions.
As a resident of Ramat Bet Shemesh, a neighborhood in the thick of the action, I come in defense of the silence of the Rabbonim.
I clearly understand from where their reluctance to vocalize their opposition comes.
The Torah, when describing the behavior of the brothers of Yosef, teaches a valuable lesson. Sometimes from a negative action we can learn a positive trait about another. The brothers of Yosef are credited to have spoken “of equal heart and mouth”. They didn’t feign an external love for Yosef while harboring hate within. They spoke harshly to him because they felt animosity toward him. So while the Torah doesn’t condone hatred of others It does point out the consistency in their actions.
In this light I truly understand (and perhaps even respect in some little way) why the Rabbonim of Ramat Bet Shemesh are silent on the treatment of the Orot students by the “extremists”.
How could rabbonim of Ramat Bet Shemesh condemn the lack of respect for women when they themselves attempted to take total control of the mikve less than 2 years ago? Having 2 sides wasn't good enough..they wanted to take both. Their “grab” at the mikve was in a sense saying "we don’t respect your choice of rabbinic supervision and you must follow our way".
Could we expect rabbonim to issue a statement about loving all Jews when they themselves exclude certain tzedaka organizations from having a presence (to collect) in their shuls? The same rabbis have no issue with that organization assisting members of their kehilla.
And what would we say to a statement about respecting and loving ALL Jewish children from the very rabbis who formulate school policy contracts that forbid their students from interacting with other RELIGIOUS children just because they attend different schools?
Would it not be hypocritical to expect a rav to oppose vandalism of a school when these rabbonim are silent on the vandalism of signs and banners of worthy organizations in their community?
What shall we say when a rav says “it’s not my job to deal with the extremists…go to the police” when those same rabbonim forbid in no “uncertain terms” going to the police about child abuse.
These rabbonim clearly understand that to issue such loud condemnations would violate their standard of being of “one heart and one mouth”.
So while I may disagree with their stances on all of the above I must (silently) applaud their remaining consistent even while their own congregants are taking to the streets and the blogs.
In Defense of Their Silence
There has been an uproar in recent weeks about the silence of the Charedi rabbonim in regard to mistreatment of and violence against women and children. Much of the complaining has actually emanated from within the Charedi community itself. Many of the “men (and women) on the street” in the Charedi community are appalled at the behavior of these select few and the reluctance of their own rabbis to condemn these actions.
As a resident of Ramat Bet Shemesh, a neighborhood in the thick of the action, I come in defense of the silence of the Rabbonim.
I clearly understand from where their reluctance to vocalize their opposition comes.
The Torah, when describing the behavior of the brothers of Yosef, teaches a valuable lesson. Sometimes from a negative action we can learn a positive trait about another. The brothers of Yosef are credited to have spoken “of equal heart and mouth”. They didn’t feign an external love for Yosef while harboring hate within. They spoke harshly to him because they felt animosity toward him. So while the Torah doesn’t condone hatred of others It does point out the consistency in their actions.
In this light I truly understand (and perhaps even respect in some little way) why the Rabbonim of Ramat Bet Shemesh are silent on the treatment of the Orot students by the “extremists”.
How could rabbonim of Ramat Bet Shemesh condemn the lack of respect for women when they themselves attempted to take total control of the mikve less than 2 years ago? Having 2 sides wasn't good enough..they wanted to take both. Their “grab” at the mikve was in a sense saying "we don’t respect your choice of rabbinic supervision and you must follow our way".
Could we expect rabbonim to issue a statement about loving all Jews when they themselves exclude certain tzedaka organizations from having a presence (to collect) in their shuls? The same rabbis have no issue with that organization assisting members of their kehilla.
And what would we say to a statement about respecting and loving ALL Jewish children from the very rabbis who formulate school policy contracts that forbid their students from interacting with other RELIGIOUS children just because they attend different schools?
Would it not be hypocritical to expect a rav to oppose vandalism of a school when these rabbonim are silent on the vandalism of signs and banners of worthy organizations in their community?
What shall we say when a rav says “it’s not my job to deal with the extremists…go to the police” when those same rabbonim forbid in no “uncertain terms” going to the police about child abuse.
These rabbonim clearly understand that to issue such loud condemnations would violate their standard of being of “one heart and one mouth”.
So while I may disagree with their stances on all of the above I must (silently) applaud their remaining consistent even while their own congregants are taking to the streets and the blogs.
Labels:
bet shemesh,
dati leumi,
haredim,
kannoim,
OROT,
violence
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I would like to thank you for your support of the silence of local Rabanim.
ReplyDeleteWell, gosh darn it, you certainly convinced me! Great post.
ReplyDeleteThis is completely consistent with the Agudah's statement supporting the goals of the fanatics while decrying their methods.
ReplyDeleteStill seems to be talking about one particular shul Rafi. Now, what's your statement of defence for still davening there!
ReplyDeleteFantastic!
ReplyDeleteThe anonymous poster is utterly mistaken.
ReplyDeleteHe/she presents the rabbis as being caught between being silent, or speaking out & being hypocrites.
They are actually being silent AND being hypocrites.
The best of both worlds!
These same rabbis are happy to come out swinging against alleged kashrus infringements, Magen, Lema'an Achai, left-side mikve users, and presumably believe someone's listening to their denunciations.
Only when it comes to their loony right, do they suddenly become coy, and lose their tongues.
Silent & Hypocritical!
Anon,
ReplyDeleteSadly,I know of many shuls and their rabbis that the poster could be referring to.
OK, it was a cute way of making a point, but the real reason behind the silence of the major Chareidi Rabbonim is simple. The askonim that drive and animate the Chareidi agenda and fully control what gets said by whom, are pleased as punch at the turn of events. While I doubt they agree with the methods, in the end it's all about real estate - who will control all the new neighborhoods being built in Bet Shemesh. You can bet that these events will help convince Dati Leumi and maybe even the "new-Chareidim" (their arch-enemies) to look elsewhere, leaving them a clear field.
ReplyDeleteSo don't expect to hear any condemnations from the Chareidi "establishment" anytime soon. And I wouldn't expect the local American Rabbonim to buck the system that, with rare exception, they belong to.
The problem with their silence is that they are inconsistent. This has become an international incident. Kiruv proffesionals around the world have been hit with accusations and questions. The chilul hashem has been tremendous as Jews and Goyim are questioning and making fun of frum people. They are quick to speak up about college, slifkin, and other topics that meet their "qualifications", some without really even knowing the truth! Here it really boils down to power and a land grab. They really7 don't support spitting on little girls, but the goons doing it are really helping their cause. The rabbis know that eventually the crazy ones will wear down the others and those others will simply move away, thereby allowing the rabbis to expand and take over the area there as well.
ReplyDeleter.Natan Slifkin has published a Rabbis Letter condemning violence at Orot Banot.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2012/01/letter-of-community-rabbis.html
Out of fourteen community rabbis who signed it, there's not ONE hareidi rabbi.
Shame on them!
sad truth, I agree.
ReplyDeleteThe 'free BS' movement shot themselves in the leg, not just the foot by taking this national. Who the hell wants to move to BS now and deal with those issues? In the past, BS had a development town status that scared people away and incredibly got past that. But now, it's hopeless. They gave the city to the Haredim on a platter. Even if they manage to stop Haredim from building, what non-religious and national-religious will even think of moving to BS. Plenty of other housing elsewhere with better road access too.
This whole post is ridiculous. Nothing but conspiracy theories.
ReplyDeleteAnd quite frankly, I'm surprised at you, Rafi. You readers mostly don't have access to these local chareidi rabbonim, so they can spin whatever stories they like. But you do. You could simply go and ask, and get a straight answer. So why all the theories. This is beneath you.
Hamasig,
ReplyDeleteConspiracy theories?
Let's see..there were 5 points brought up in the post.
We'll examine one by one:
1. Mikve issue...clear as day. The mikve was operating with "2 sides" so that women could have a choice. There was a "grab" attempt (which btw was supported by the mayor until Rav Ovadiah stepped in). B"H they didn't succeed and women still have a choice.
2.I was witness to a Lema'an Achai collector being told that he can't collect in Mases Mordechai shul. After inquiry I discovered that this has happened several times. And who made the request? The gabbai who is also a collector for Kupa Shel Tzedaka.
Anyone who davens in MM knows that any and every Charedi shnorrer can make an appeal..but chas v'shalom someone from Lema'an Achai. Is this conspiracy or simple sinat chinam?
3.It is fact that students of certain Bais Yaakov schools and chadarim are not supposed to socialize with students from certain other schools.
4.Lema'an Achai had 30 banners systematically destroyed over a short period of time last spring. The signs from other organizations hanging next to Lema'an Achai's were untouched. How do I know? My business paid for a banner and it was ripped off within a day (as were many of the others).
Also..please try and find a Lema'an Achai poster, flyer or leaflet in Bais Tfilla, the Gra, Mases Mordechai,Chanichei HaYeshivos,Pnei Shmuel. I know that they are placed there and I know that they are removed. I daven in a very DL shul and when Kupa and other charedi literature is placed there it remains until the next clean up.Is it still a conspiracy?
5.Several rabbonim in the community have publicly stated that no one should go to the police in suspected abuse but go to them. Some of these same rabbonim have said that the Bet Shemesh people should have gone to the police, not the media (with which I agree).
Why the double standard? If police can handle thugs they should be able to handle suspected abusers as well.
Hamsig, you have made yourself an apologist for the charedi community before. I am certain that your intentions are noble.
However when it comes to being honest about the attitude of many in the Charedi - community towards "non-charedim" I think that Hamsig may have no hasaga.
I could argue all these points with you. But they are besides the point. The bottom line is the suggestion that the reason they don't protest is they hate DL and women and anything else not under their control. And that is absurd.
ReplyDeleteIt might sound nice on paper, but anyone who knows personally any of the chareidi rabbonim of RBSA should see that it doesn't fit.
And Rafi does know.
rafi, me, didnt write this post. it was a guest post. I am fairly liberal in what i allow, and I encourage guest posts, no matter what side is being presented. I have not agreed with many of the guest posts I have allowed to be posted. no personal attacks, and the style and/or opinion must be fairly unique.
ReplyDeleteI might start requiring names though. I am tiring of the idea that so many people are afraid to put their name to their opinion.
Hamsig said:
ReplyDelete"I could argue all these points with you. But they are besides the point."
I beg of you to argue them. I would like someone to explain to me how the wholesale attitude "downing" DL are "besides the point".
It is the point.
So the "moderate" charedim of RBSA don't spit or throw diapers but their actions are no less an expression of "bitul" and sinah than those who behave more coarsely.